{"id":8396,"date":"2010-12-01T11:43:20","date_gmt":"2010-12-01T16:43:20","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/?p=8396"},"modified":"2010-12-01T12:29:23","modified_gmt":"2010-12-01T17:29:23","slug":"lynda-barry-on-picture-this","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2010\/12\/01\/lynda-barry-on-picture-this\/","title":{"rendered":"Lynda Barry on &#8216;Picture This&#8217;"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2010\/11\/lynda_barry_self-740691.jpg\" alt=\"\" title=\"Lynda Barry\" width=\"270\" height=\"296\" class=\"alignleft size-full wp-image-8403\" \/><em>Lynda Barry is many things: a cartoonist, best known for her long-running strip, <\/em>Ernie Pook\u2019s Comeek; <em>the author of two illustrated novels, <\/em><a href=\"http:\/\/www.amazon.com\/CRUDDY-Illustrated-Novel-Lynda-Barry\/dp\/068483846X\/\">Cruddy<\/a><em> and <\/em><a href=\"http:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Good-Times-Are-Killing-Me\/dp\/157061105X\/\">The Good Times Are Killing Me<\/a><em>; and the sought-after instructor of the workshop \u201cWriting the Unthinkable.\u201d In her two memoir-cum-workbooks\u20142008\u2019s <\/em><a href=\"http:\/\/www.amazon.com\/What-Lynda-Barry\/dp\/1897299354\/\">What It Is<\/a><em> and <\/em><a href=\"http:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Picture-This-Near-sighted-Monkey-Book\/dp\/1897299648\/\">Picture This<\/a><em>, published last month by Drawn &#038; Quarterly\u2014Barry puts her many talents into play. The books\u2019 dense collages, lively cartoons, and hand-drawn text use autobiographical tidbits and philosophical flights of fancy to explore the creative impulse, asking such questions as What is an image? and Why do we stop drawing? Barry, a friend of Matt Groening\u2019s since their days at the Evergreen State College in the seventies, agreed to meet me for breakfast, where we talked art, writing, and cigarettes.<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>One of the themes of <em>Picture This<\/em> is forgetting in order to remember, which seems pretty counterintuitive. When you combine it with Don\u2019t\u2014the name of the cigarettes, which are a running gag throughout\u2014the meaning of the lines becomes very contradictory.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Forget to remember to forget to remember, or remember to forget to remember to forget. Yeah, it just makes your brain go <em>uuuuuuuhhh<\/em>. That\u2019s exactly what I wanted: to get to the point where you realize you don\u2019t know what you\u2019re looking at. Plus, it\u2019s fun coming up with slogans. \u201cWhat would you do for a don\u2019t?\u201d \u201cDon\u2019t consider it.\u201d <\/p>\n<p>I stumbled on these magazines called <em>Grade Teacher<\/em>, which were sent to grade-school teachers every month, and I have a pile of them from the late twenties to the sixties. They have stuff like \u201cFun Things to Draw\u201d or \u201cLet\u2019s Do Our Bulletin Board.\u201d But the big ad sponsorship is from coal companies and asbestos companies: \u201cFree giant charts for your class about how wonderful coal is!\u201d The weirdest things are the art projects with asbestos powder, like \u201cLets make beads and make necklaces and wear them.\u201d I am not joking. <\/p>\n<p><!--more-->I wanted to piggyback on that idea. We all know that smoking cigarettes is bad for your health, and I wanted to put something in there that people would unconsciously associate with \u201cnot.\u201d \u201cDon\u2019t,\u201d like \u201cnot drawing is bad for your health,\u201d like \u201cnot doing this stuff is bad for you.\u201d But also, it\u2019s fun; any picture\u2019s improved if you draw a cigarette in it. There\u2019s nothing that doesn\u2019t look better. Seriously, get a Sharpie and an old <em>Vogue<\/em> magazine. Every page you have to add a cigarette. You\u2019ll laugh your ass off. It\u2019ll be sad because you\u2019ll be alone.<\/p>\n<p><center>\n\t\t<style type=\"text\/css\">\n\t\t\t#gallery-1 {\n\t\t\t\tmargin: auto;\n\t\t\t}\n\t\t\t#gallery-1 .gallery-item {\n\t\t\t\tfloat: left;\n\t\t\t\tmargin-top: 10px;\n\t\t\t\ttext-align: center;\n\t\t\t\twidth: 33%;\n\t\t\t}\n\t\t\t#gallery-1 img {\n\t\t\t\tborder: 2px solid #cfcfcf;\n\t\t\t}\n\t\t\t#gallery-1 .gallery-caption {\n\t\t\t\tmargin-left: 0;\n\t\t\t}\n\t\t\t\/* see gallery_shortcode() in wp-includes\/media.php *\/\n\t\t<\/style>\n\t\t<div id='gallery-1' class='gallery galleryid-8396 gallery-columns-3 gallery-size-thumbnail'><dl class='gallery-item'>\n\t\t\t<dt class='gallery-icon portrait'>\n\t\t\t\t<a href='https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2010\/12\/01\/lynda-barry-on-picture-this\/layout-1\/'><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"150\" height=\"150\" src=\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2010\/11\/picture_this_interior-62-150x150.jpg\" class=\"attachment-thumbnail size-thumbnail\" alt=\"\" \/><\/a>\n\t\t\t<\/dt><\/dl><dl class='gallery-item'>\n\t\t\t<dt class='gallery-icon portrait'>\n\t\t\t\t<a href='https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2010\/12\/01\/lynda-barry-on-picture-this\/layout-1-2\/'><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"150\" height=\"150\" src=\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2010\/11\/PICTURE_THISpg60-150x150.jpg\" class=\"attachment-thumbnail size-thumbnail\" alt=\"\" \/><\/a>\n\t\t\t<\/dt><\/dl><dl class='gallery-item'>\n\t\t\t<dt class='gallery-icon portrait'>\n\t\t\t\t<a href='https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2010\/12\/01\/lynda-barry-on-picture-this\/layout-1-3\/'><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"150\" height=\"150\" src=\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2010\/11\/picture_thispg80-150x150.jpg\" class=\"attachment-thumbnail size-thumbnail\" alt=\"\" \/><\/a>\n\t\t\t<\/dt><\/dl><br style=\"clear: both\" \/><dl class='gallery-item'>\n\t\t\t<dt class='gallery-icon portrait'>\n\t\t\t\t<a href='https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2010\/12\/01\/lynda-barry-on-picture-this\/layout-1-4\/'><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"150\" height=\"150\" src=\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2010\/11\/picture_thispg125-150x150.jpg\" class=\"attachment-thumbnail size-thumbnail\" alt=\"\" \/><\/a>\n\t\t\t<\/dt><\/dl><dl class='gallery-item'>\n\t\t\t<dt class='gallery-icon portrait'>\n\t\t\t\t<a href='https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2010\/12\/01\/lynda-barry-on-picture-this\/layout-1-5\/'><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"150\" height=\"150\" src=\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2010\/11\/Picture_thispg153-150x150.jpg\" class=\"attachment-thumbnail size-thumbnail\" alt=\"\" \/><\/a>\n\t\t\t<\/dt><\/dl><dl class='gallery-item'>\n\t\t\t<dt class='gallery-icon portrait'>\n\t\t\t\t<a href='https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2010\/12\/01\/lynda-barry-on-picture-this\/layout-1-6\/'><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"150\" height=\"150\" src=\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2010\/11\/picture_thispg207-150x150.jpg\" class=\"attachment-thumbnail size-thumbnail\" alt=\"\" \/><\/a>\n\t\t\t<\/dt><\/dl><br style=\"clear: both\" \/>\n\t\t<\/div>\n<\/center><\/p>\n<p><strong><em>Picture This<\/em> opens with Arna and Marlys at a branch library, but when they return, later in the book, the library is closed. It\u2019s a very moving scene. Without much external encouragement, they\u2019re reliant on books for creative inspiration and confidence, which they realize once that outlet becomes unavailable to them.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>The libraries in public schools saved my life, completely. I didn\u2019t want to make it really explicit in the book, but that\u2019s the library where Arna first sees the book <em>Picture This<\/em>, but she doesn\u2019t check it out because Marlys wants to go home, and then she never finds it again. For me that branch library being closed is about drawing: It\u2019s about this thing we had open to us and that we all did, and one day, it closes for people; one day, we stop. I\u2019m really curious about that. What makes us start drawing and what makes us stop? And what happens to drawing when we think we don\u2019t draw anymore\u2014because most people say, Oh my drawing\u2019s so terrible, I really can\u2019t draw. But then if you\u2019re sitting in a meeting and you have a paper in front of you, you probably have something that you draw, this doodling thing that everybody does. I like to ask people, Why do you think you do that? Why do we draw in that situation?<\/p>\n<p>What that thing does is help you endure time. It\u2019s almost microscopic, but without it, time feels like a cheese grater, and in doodling, it\u2019s a little more bearable. If you start to think about the arts as a way of transforming time or transforming your experience, then it gets interesting, instead of being \u201cthis is a nice picture\u201d or \u201cthis is a picture that sucks.\u201d <\/p>\n<p><strong>Even very early on, children ascribe meaning to their scribblings; they\u2019re never just abstract pictures. That\u2019s partly what\u2019s so fascinating about looking at abstract art: The forms become utterly subjective, and the colors themselves take on meaning.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>That means you\u2019re making the picture. That\u2019s my kind of drawing. That\u2019s what I tell people, if there\u2019s a coffee stain, and you see something in it, that\u2019s a drawing. You didn\u2019t necessarily draw it with your hand, but you made that. And that\u2019s an old, old thing. In terms of evolution, it\u2019s the immune system that allows the body to fight off a bacterial infection. I believe that the arts are like an external immune system. I believe that they have a biological function. <\/p>\n<p>The fastest way I can explain it is that there is this brilliant neuroscientist named V. S. Ramachandran, who wrote a book called <em><a href=\"http:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Phantoms-Brain-Probing-Mysteries-Human\/dp\/0688172172\/\">Phantoms in the Brain<\/a><\/em>. He was very interested in people with <a href=\"http:\/\/www.newyorker.com\/reporting\/2008\/06\/30\/080630fa_fact_gawande\">phantom-limb pain<\/a>, and he had one patient who had lost his hand from the wrist down, but the guy\u2019s sensation was not only that the hand was still there, but that it was in a painful fist that kept clenching. Ramachandran built a box, with a mirror and two holes in one side. When the guy put his arms in, he saw the one hand reflected. When he opened the hand, he <em>saw<\/em> it open and it was like the missing hand was unclenching. It fixed his phantom-limb sensation. That\u2019s what I think images do; that\u2019s what the arts do. In the course of human life we have a million phantom-limb pains\u2014losing a parent when you\u2019re little, being in a war, even something as dumb as having a mean teacher\u2014and seeing it somehow reflected, whether it\u2019s in our own work or listening to a song, is a way to deal with it.<\/p>\n<p>The Greeks knew about it. They called it catharsis, right? And without it we\u2019re fucked. I think this is the thing that keeps our mental health or emotional health in balance, and we\u2019re born with an impulse toward it. <\/p>\n<p><strong>Do you prefer teaching drawing or prose?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s much easier to teach writing, because people are less shy about writing. If they\u2019re in a group, nobody can see what they\u2019re writing. When you\u2019re drawing, people get a little more nervous. In my writing class, we never ever talk about the writing\u2014ever. We never address a story that\u2019s been read. I also won\u2019t let anyone look at the person who\u2019s reading. No eye contact; everybody has to draw a spiral. And I would like to do a drawing class where we could talk about anything except for the drawing. No one could even mention it. I\u2019d encourage people to copy each other and do whatever they want, but no one can talk about the drawing. When I was watching my students play around, they weren\u2019t talking about the drawing, they were talking to each other, and getting into that dreamy state. <\/p>\n<p><strong>Did you paint all of the words in <em>Picture This<\/em>? Your handwriting is incredible. <\/strong><\/p>\n<p>It is all hand painted. When I was working on <em>Freddie<\/em>, I had been trying to write it on a computer for many, many years, but that delete button just won\u2019t let anything go forward. In <em>Picture This<\/em>, I talk about babysitting that kid who told me a story one word at a time, and I thought, If that joker can do it \u2026 And I came back to my studio and tried to think of the slowest possible way to write a novel, and the slowest way is with frosting. I was really at the end of my rope. There was a baker near our house, and you could look through the window and see the guy decorating cakes. This was in the sixties, when people smoked all the time, and he would smoke while he was decorating cakes. He was this gnarly old guy with a red nose, cigarette, but he did <small>HAPPY BIRTHDAY FRANCISCO!<\/small> like a pro. And then I thought I had discovered the brush and that I was going to blow everyone\u2019s mind with this news, that you could write a novel with a paintbrush. I mean really, like I had revolutionized three thousand years of Chinese culture. Turns out they know.<\/p>\n<p><strong>What about longer works, like <em>Cruddy<\/em>?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>I just needed to get the story down, so I wrote it by hand. And I wrote it on really big legal paper, so there\u2019d be maybe three words per line. I mean, the manuscript was this big old crinkly thing, and Matt [Groening]\u2014we were giving each other shit and being competitive\u2014he\u2019d ask, \u201cHow\u2019s your book going?\u201d The last thing another writer wants to hear is \u201cGreat!\u201d They want to hear \u201cOh I\u2019m having trouble!\u201d while they\u2019re thinking, Really? Is it bad? Yes! So I tell him, \u201cAhh! It\u2019s goin\u2019 great, you know I\u2019m on page like 570!\u201d But I didn\u2019t tell him that the handwriting was <em>this<\/em> big. <\/p>\n<p>After writing it, I took it and copied part of it again, and then I worked on a manual typewriter, because that delete button\u2014I really wanted to keep away from it. It was like getting to know a neighborhood: I just walked through the book, I copied it like three times, till the fourth time, when I put it on the computer, and it sort of edited itself, which was a way better way to work than when you don\u2019t know how to be patient so you go back and pick at the top, and then you pick away the thing that you actually needed in order to get that other thing. Yeah, delete button. <\/p>\n<p><strong>Is your new novel, <em>Mr. Birdis<\/em>, being written the same way? <\/strong><\/p>\n<p>I handwrite it without any spaces. When I was traveling, because I couldn\u2019t only use my brush, I wrote it without any spaces so it looks like one long word. Cause I didn\u2019t want to be able to read it over very easily. I wanted to write it without me reading it back, and then if I really wanted to read it later on, I could. It looks really boss. You can write anything you want and the people next to you can\u2019t read it. They try to sneak a look and think, \u201cIt\u2019s a really long word, man.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><em>On December 2, Lynda Barry and Maira Kalman will be <a href=\"http:\/\/www.92y.org\/shop\/event_detail.asp?productid=T-LC5AE12\">in conversation at the 92nd Street Y<\/a>.<\/em><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Lynda Barry is many things: a cartoonist, best known for her long-running strip, Ernie Pook\u2019s Comeek; the author of two illustrated novels, Cruddy and The Good Times Are Killing Me; and the sought-after instructor of the workshop \u201cWriting the Unthinkable.\u201d In her two memoir-cum-workbooks\u20142008\u2019s What It Is and Picture This, published last month by Drawn [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":54,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[907],"tags":[1464,131,1467,1466,1465,1461,1463,1468,1459,1462,1460],"class_list":["post-8396","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-at-work","tag-cigarettes","tag-comics","tag-delete-button","tag-doodles","tag-drawing","tag-drawn-quarterly","tag-evergreen-state-college","tag-hand-drawn-text","tag-lynda-barry","tag-matt-groening","tag-picture-this"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO Premium plugin v25.4 (Yoast SEO v25.4) - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Lynda Barry on &#039;Picture This&#039; 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