{"id":82176,"date":"2015-01-30T13:54:29","date_gmt":"2015-01-30T18:54:29","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/?p=82176"},"modified":"2015-01-30T15:13:10","modified_gmt":"2015-01-30T20:13:10","slug":"all-in-one-an-interview-with-tomi-ungerer","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2015\/01\/30\/all-in-one-an-interview-with-tomi-ungerer\/","title":{"rendered":"All in One: An Interview with Tomi Ungerer"},"content":{"rendered":"
\"1\"<\/a>

Tomi Ungerer. \u00a9 Luc B\u00e9rujeau<\/p><\/div>\n

At the opening for the Drawing Center\u2019s\u00a0\u201cAll in One<\/a>,\u201d Tomi Ungerer\u2019s first U.S. retrospective, swarms of visitors obscured the art on the walls. The crowd bent toward the artist, who was holding court and a glass of red wine, though none was being served. Ungerer, who is eighty-three, was in his element. For him, this retrospective is a kind of homecoming. After more than forty years in exile, his career is finding its rightful place in the New York art world.<\/p>\n

The Drawing Center exhibition, curated by Claire Gilman, begins with Ungerer\u2019s earliest doodles as a child growing up in Nazi-occupied Alsace, where under the nationalistic duress of war he first learned to be an outlaw. Delicately subversive, they are inscribed with a mature, swaggering humor\u00a0that takes a subject as terrifying as Hitler and renders him a fool.<\/p>\n

In 1956, Ungerer was lured to New York City at the height of\u00a0print, when publications\u00a0offered vast opportunities for creative illustrators.\u00a0Without\u00a0contacts or even a high school diploma, Ungerer impressed art directors with his idiosyncratic drawing style and witty candor. He became sought after for advertising and editorial work, and most prominently, his\u00a0unconventional children\u2019s books, which featured society\u2019s most repulsive characters\u2014robbers, snakes, pigs, beggars\u2014as compassionate protagonists.<\/p>\n

\"S18.TIF\"<\/a>

Untitled<\/i>, 1966 (drawing for The Party<\/i>, first published by Paragraphic Books, Grossman Publishers, New York), ink and ink wash on paper, 18″ x 18″. Collection Mus\u00e9e Tomi Ungerer\/Centre international de l\u2019Illustration, Strasbourg. \u00a9 Tomi Ungerer\/Diogenes Verlag AG, Z\u00fcrich. Photo courtesy Mus\u00e9es de la Ville de Strasbourg\/Mathieu Bertola.<\/p><\/div>\n

While working professionally in these PG-rated circles, he remained a deeply political artist, self-publishing bold posters against the Vietnam War, a book of harsh satire called\u00a0The Underground Sketchbook<\/em>, and sadomasochistic erotic drawings. But upon discovering his erotic work, the children\u2019s-book community was scandalized. His books were removed from public libraries and his reputation tarnished. Dejected and unable to find work, he left New York in 1971, moving to Nova Scotia with his wife before finding a permanent home in Cork, Ireland.<\/p>\n

This defection cost Ungerer the renown he deserves. It wasn\u2019t until 1998 that he received the Hans Christian Andersen Award, the highest achievement for children\u2019s-book authors, and a sign of the recent\u00a0reappraisal\u00a0of his career. Recent years have seen reissues of his children\u2019s books in English and a large catalogue of his erotic drawings. In Strasbourg, he has a museum dedicated to his work, and in 2012, his life was the subject of a documentary film. <\/p>\n

\"11\"<\/a>

Untitled<\/i>, 1999 (drawing for Otto: The Autobiography of a Teddy Bear<\/i>, first published by Diogenes Verlag AG, Z\u00fcrich), pencil and ink wash on paper, 12″ x 16″. Collection: Mus\u00e9e Tomi Ungerer\/Centre international de l\u2019Illustration, Strasbourg. \u00a9 Tomi Ungerer\/Diogenes Verlag AG, Z\u00fcrich. Photo courtesy Mus\u00e9es de la Ville de Strasbourg\/Mathieu Bertola.<\/p><\/div>\n

 <\/p>\n

\"8\"<\/a>

Fear of Feelings<\/i>, 1982 (drawing for Symptomatics<\/i>, published by Diogenes Verlag AG, Z\u00fcrich), ink, ink wash, and colored pencil on tracing paper, 10″ x 8″. Tomi Ungerer Collection, Ireland. \u00a9 Tomi Ungerer\/Diogenes Verlag AG, Z\u00fcrich<\/p><\/div>\n

 <\/p>\n

\"12\"<\/a>

Untitled<\/i>, 1944, pencil, ink, and watercolor on paper, 8 1\/4″ x 9″. Collection: Mus\u00e9e Tomi Ungerer\/Centre international de l\u2019Illustration, Strasbourg. \u00a9 Tomi Ungerer\/Diogenes Verlag AG, Z\u00fcrich. Photo courtesy Mus\u00e9es de la Ville de Strasbourg\/Mathieu Bertola.<\/p><\/div>\n

\u201cAll in One\u201d\u00a0follows this trend, showing that Ungerer has been anything but inactive since leaving New York. The range of subject matter is astounding, spanning the terrors of World War II and the turbulence of the sixties, and reaching into the present, with a last-minute addition of the artist\u2019s response to the Charlie Hebdo<\/em> attacks: a cartoon of Lady Liberty crucified.<\/p>\n

His career represents a bygone era of eccentricity in advertising and the revolutionary potential of children\u2019s books. Observed without the sheen of controversy, his erotic work is full of nuance: Fornicon\u00a0<\/em>has a fluorescent-lit quality, and steady black lines imagine men and women equipped with bizarre sex machines, like rickety, salivating superheroes. In contrast, Totempole<\/em>, also using sadomasichism\u2019s external devices and scenarios, expresses inwardness through the sketchy, hesitant line of specificity. These erotic works are given their own separate gallery, with a disclaimer for parents of young children. It\u2019s hard to avoid, as the gallery\u2019s entrance sits just above a theater screening animated film adaptations of Ungerer\u2019s children\u2019s books. On opening night, giggles erupted up the theater steps; the crowd was mostly adults.<\/p>\n

I met Ungerer a few days later at his hotel in Soho, a neighborhood that epitomizes the city\u2019s transformation since the time he ran wild here. His features have been sharpened rather than softened by time, and his blue eyes project lively light. In an art world that has grown to valorize polite professionalism, Ungerer\u2019s\u00a0irreverent\u00a0personality\u00a0has the air of a once-upon-a-time legend. He\u2019s quick to inject dark humor into the most mundane interactions. He begged the waiter for decaffeinated coffee, declaring, \u201cOtherwise I will blow up. But don\u2019t worry, you are invited to my funeral. Look, you\u2019re already all dressed in black for the occasion!\u201d He soon hijacked the interview, beginning with his own line of questioning.<\/p>\n

\"3\"<\/a>

Untitled<\/i>, 1967 (drawing for Moon Man<\/i>, page 19, first published in 1966 as Der Mondmann<\/em> by Diogenes Verlag AG, Z\u00fcrich), pen and ink and tempera on paper, 12 5\/8″ x 9 3\/8″. Children\u2019s Literature Research Collection, Free Library of Philadelphia<\/p><\/div>\n

 <\/p>\n

\"2\"<\/a>

Untitled<\/i>, 1961 (drawing for The Three Robbers<\/i>, page 5, first published\u00a0as Die drei R\u00e4uber<\/i> by Georg Lentz Verlag, Munich), colored pencil, gouache, and watercolor on paper, 11 7\/8″ x 8 5\/8″. Children\u2019s Literature Research Collection, Free Library of Philadelphia<\/p><\/div>\n

Have you read my piece in the [All in One<\/em>] catalogue?<\/p>\n

I did. I was especially intrigued by your aphorisms, which you end your essay with. Could you tell me a bit about those?<\/strong><\/p>\n

People call me an illustrator, but I have been only occasionally an illustrator. In France or Germany I\u2019m known as a writer and as a drawer. These aphorisms are my specialty. They\u2019re all published in France and Germany and are untranslatable usually, because they\u2019re a play on words. I would call them sayings, because aphorism<\/em> is pretentious\u2014it means there\u2019s a certain wisdom. And one of my aphorisms is, \u201cHow boring is wisdom?\u201d<\/p>\n

I think of some of your greatest works as visual aphorisms.<\/strong><\/p>\n

For me, it has to be concise. This is why I reject all cartoons which have something written, where there\u2019s a man, and then it says, Income tax. No! The drawing has to be able to speak without any balloon or anything. It just has to jump out and be clear. And I learned that from Steinberg. Steinberg is not so much an influence for the line. Steinberg was, for me, an intellectual experience\u2014that with a few lines he could put a whole thought.<\/p>\n

\"5\"<\/a>

Untitled<\/i>, 1968 (poster for the Village Voice<\/i>), 44 1\/2″ x 29 1\/2″. From the collection of Jack Rennert, New York. \u00a9 Tomi Ungerer\/Diogenes Verlag AG, Z\u00fcrich. Photo courtesy Mus\u00e9es de la Ville de Strasbourg\/Mathieu Bertola.<\/p><\/div>\n

But to me, Steinberg was an observer. I think of you as more of a provocateur. What role do politics have in your work?<\/strong><\/p>\n

In a way, my whole life has been working and fighting for causes. Goebbels was another enormous influence, because I grew up under Nazi propaganda. Goebbels showed me that if you want to demolish your enemy, you use his own weapons. Which is what I\u2019ve done. I\u2019ve been fighting fascism and violence, but with the same technique, which is just power. I mean, a poster has to hit you. And this is very interesting because in German the word slogan<\/em> is translated as a \u201cfist-word,\u201d\u00a0Schlagwort<\/em>.\u00a0Schlag <\/em>means hitting. So it\u2019s a word that hits. It\u2019s the same with visuals, because even if a poster goes by on a bus, it has to stay in your mind.<\/p>\n

So do you see your work as always on the offensive?<\/strong><\/p>\n

I don\u2019t calculate. I\u2019m just spontaneous. I do crazy things without thinking. Sometimes I do something with a purpose. I did a children\u2019s book,\u00a0Making Friends<\/em>, which is about a black boy coming to\u00a0a white neighborhood\u2014that was done with a purpose. A lot of my energy went to big campaigns, like for AIDS<\/small> and cancer. For AIDS<\/small>, it was so much fun\u2014we gave away something like 500,000 condoms free in the street, and on every condom was a drawing of mine, a silhouette of a naked girl with a butterfly net catching a heart, but the butterfly net was a condom. Can you imagine 500,000 of those being handed out in the streets? This would be unthinkable in America! I must say, I\u2019ve always had my fun, too, you see.<\/p>\n

Your fun came up against those American puritanical values. What\u2019s it like to see your erotic works displayed in the Drawing Center exhibition when they were so controversial in the past?<\/strong><\/p>\n

I was ahead of my time. Taschen came out with a huge book of my erotic works and I was delighted to see that, when it came out, there were sometimes more women than men at a signing, which would have been unthinkable in the time.<\/p>\n

\"16\"<\/a>

Untitled<\/i>, 1969 (drawing for Fornicon<\/i>, first pubished by Rhinoceros, New York), ink on tracing paper, 14″ x 11″. Collection: Mus\u00e9e Tomi Ungerer\/Centre international de l\u2019Illustration, Strasbourg. \u00a9 Tomi Ungerer\/Diogenes Verlag AG, Z\u00fcrich. Photo courtesy Mus\u00e9es de la Ville de Strasbourg.<\/p><\/div>\n

 <\/p>\n

\"15\"<\/a>

Untitled<\/i>, n.d. (drawing for Fornicon<\/i>, first published in 1969 by Rhinoceros, New York), ink on tracing paper, 14″ x 11″. Tomi Ungerer Collection, Ireland. \u00a9 Tomi Ungerer\/Diogenes Verlag AG, Z\u00fcrich<\/p><\/div>\n

 <\/p>\n

\"14\"<\/a>

Droben Stehet die Kapelle schauet tief ins Tal hinein (Rise above, behold the chapel deep in the valley)<\/i>, 1971 (variation on Totempole, published 1976 by Diogenes Verlag AG, Z\u00fcrich), grease crayon and pencil on tracing paper, 16 9\/16″ x 11 13\/16″. Tomi Ungerer Collection, Ireland<\/p><\/div>\n

 <\/p>\n

\"13\"<\/a>

Untitled (In Bewegung) (In motion)<\/i>, c. 1974 (variation on Totempole<\/i>, published in 1976 by Diogenes Verlag AG, Z\u00fcrich), pencil on tracing paper, 11 1\/16″ x 14″. Tomi Ungerer Collection, Ireland<\/p><\/div>\n

When you came to New York, it was the heyday of print and your work was widely distributed. Do you think those kinds of opportunities have changed for illustrators in the digital age?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Those days are over. These days, all the advertising money goes into television. And in the olden days, all the money went into the magazines. Even magazines like Colliers<\/em>\u00a0or\u00a0Look<\/em>\u00a0published stories, so the illustrators were on hire. The first cartoon I sold to\u00a0Esquire<\/em>\u00a0was full page. I would sell some of my children\u2019s books as a story for the Christmas issue of a magazine.\u00a0Moon Man<\/em>\u00a0came out originally in\u00a0Holiday <\/em>magazine\u2014twelve pages for Christmas. It was incredible.<\/p>\n

You mentioned your dislike of captions, but you\u2019ve always been a storyteller. How and why do you use language in your children\u2019s books?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Well, this was a big fight in the old days. Still, to this day, the Americans say that you should use a vocabulary that the children already have and understand. And I say, No. Children should be given a challenge with new words. My wife and I read our children stories every night\u2014but way ahead of their age. Why not read The Little House on the Prairie<\/em>\u00a0to a four-year-old child? I never had this problem with Ursula Nordstrom at Harper. She was the only one who didn\u2019t give a shit about this. But when The Three Robbers<\/em>\u00a0came out, they wanted me to take out the word blunderbuss<\/em> for the gun. But blunderbuss<\/em>\u2014isn\u2019t that a beautiful word? My god! Blunderbuss<\/em>!<\/p>\n

So a children\u2019s book should be a challenge?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Exactly. It makes them curious for more words. And I always talk to children and youngsters as if I was talking to an adult. This is what people do in Ireland and in Europe. You don\u2019t do goo-goo, gaga. C\u2019mon! They\u2019re young adults, they understand fast. I had to learn German when the Germans arrived in Strasbourg. After three months, one merci<\/em> and you\u2019d be arrested. Put the knife at their throat and they\u2019ll learn fast enough! These days, I\u2019m personally responsible for the teaching of the Holocaust in French schools. My book\u00a0Otto<\/em>\u00a0is used, and my memoirs of my childhood under the Nazis.<\/p>\n

Obviously France has been the center of the discussion on the power of cartoons today. What\u2019s it like to see the world coming to the defense of cartoonists and their work?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Of course I was devastated. The drawing I did on Charlie Hebdo<\/em> is in the show. It\u2019s a sad drawing. I don\u2019t feel appalled, because it\u2019s written on the wall. It\u2019s the beginning of the World War III. World War I was in the trenches, World War II was in the air, and now we have the Internet and underground terrorism. And there is no way you can uproot that. What happened in Paris was absolutely to be expected, sooner or later.<\/p>\n

\"10\"<\/a>

Libert\u00e9 Crucifi\u00e9e<\/i>, January 9, 2015, ink wash and colored pencil on paper, 12 1\/8″ x 9″. Tomi Ungerer Collection, Ireland, \u00a9 Tomi Ungerer<\/p><\/div>\n

 <\/p>\n

\"S34.TIF\"<\/a>

Eat<\/i>, 1967 (self-published poster), 26 1\/2″ x 21″. From the collection of Jack Rennert, New York \u00a9 Tomi Ungerer\/Diogenes Verlag AG, Z\u00fcrich. Photo courtesy Mus\u00e9es de la Ville de Strasbourg\/Mathieu Bertola.<\/p><\/div>\n

 <\/p>\n

\"9\"<\/a>

Der Unterrichter (The Teacher)<\/i>, c. 1980 (drawing for Rigor Mortis<\/i>, published in 1983 by Diogenes Verlag AG, Z\u00fcrich), ink and ink wash on paper, 19 3\/4″ x 15 3\/4″. Collection: Mus\u00e9e Tomi Ungerer\/Centre international de l\u2019Illustration, Strasbourg. \u00a9 Tomi Ungerer\/Diogenes Verlag AG, Z\u00fcrich. Photo courtesy Mus\u00e9es de la Ville de Strasbourg\/Mathieu Bertola.<\/p><\/div>\n

There\u2019s been a lot of discussion on\u00a0the racism in the Charlie Hebdo<\/em> cartoons. In your earliest childhood drawings, I see you grappling with the stereotypical imagery of Nazi propaganda\u2014and later, in your drawings for the\u00a0Underground Sketchbook<\/em>\u00a0and The Party<\/em>, you satirize businessmen in their suits. What role do you think types have in your work, and when do they become stereotypes?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Society is made of types, and I\u2019m an accuser, pointing my finger. An accuser, not a judge, please, because I would have to judge myself before I judge others. But I\u2019m just pointing out all the negative aspects of society. I\u2019m reckless, but when I personally have done satire, I have always shown respect for what people respect.<\/p>\n

\"4\"<\/a>

Untitled<\/i>, c. 1964 (variation on The Underground Sketchbook<\/i>, first published in 1964 by Viking, New York), ink, ink wash, and colored pencil on paper, 11 1\/16″ x 8 5\/8″. Tomi Ungerer Collection, Ireland<\/p><\/div>\n

Your attitude has been clear, but your style has changed drastically over time. What\u2019s it like to see the work of your entire career together in the Drawing Center show?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Well, you have to understand that I\u2019m a bit of a spoiled brat. The last show I had in Germany was in a museum where I had four thousand square meters. I could have a room for every style. But I usually hate shows because the transitions between styles and periods are abrupt. I\u2019ve always been embarrassed. I\u2019m like a butterfly, just going from one thing to another. It\u2019s not part of a plan or something. It\u2019s my freedom. I cannot take myself seriously. So to come to the Drawing Center\u2014this is a rather small show, and this is what makes it extraordinary. Claire was able to get from one style to another, and you don\u2019t feel the change. It\u2019s like, flowing. There\u2019s hardly anybody who\u2019s been able to do that. Claire really put order in my life.<\/p>\n

Do you think of yourself primarily as a realist or as a fantasist?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Both. I believe reality illustrates itself by the absurd. But in terms of my philosophy, one of my famous sayings is, \u201cDon\u2019t hope, cope.\u201d I\u2019m totally realistic. I don\u2019t believe in illusions. In the papers, I read between the lines. What really strikes me is the total absurdity of our world. Even this killing is totally absurd. When you have the absurd, you have fantasy, and when you see the absurd in facts, then you have the facts. That\u2019s the key.<\/p>\n

Sarah Cowan is a freelance writer and a video editor at the Metropolitan Museum of Art. She lives in Brooklyn.<\/em><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

At the opening for the Drawing Center\u2019s\u00a0\u201cAll in One,\u201d Tomi Ungerer\u2019s first U.S. retrospective, swarms of visitors obscured the art on the walls. The crowd bent toward the artist, who was holding court and a glass of red wine, though none was being served. Ungerer, who is eighty-three, was in his element. For him, this […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":792,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[907],"tags":[679,16830,16832,35,134,16528,16835,12976,16833,16425,10588,16615,2426,1483,179,16831,16834,9240,176],"class_list":["post-82176","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-at-work","tag-advertising","tag-all-in-one","tag-alsace","tag-art","tag-cartoons","tag-charlie-hebdo","tag-claire-gilman","tag-drawings","tag-erotics","tag-exhibitions","tag-nazis","tag-political-cartoons","tag-politics","tag-saul-steinberg","tag-sex","tag-the-drawing-center","tag-the-underground-sketchbook","tag-tomi-ungerer","tag-vietnam"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"\nTomi Ungerer on Drawing, Politics, and Pushing the Envelope<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"The artist\u2019s first U.S. retrospective, \u201cAll in One,\u201d is now at the Drawing Center. 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