{"id":79401,"date":"2014-11-13T17:00:21","date_gmt":"2014-11-13T22:00:21","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/?p=79401"},"modified":"2014-11-13T17:00:21","modified_gmt":"2014-11-13T22:00:21","slug":"assorted-hijinks-an-interview-with-dick-cavett","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2014\/11\/13\/assorted-hijinks-an-interview-with-dick-cavett\/","title":{"rendered":"Assorted Hijinks: An Interview with Dick Cavett"},"content":{"rendered":"<div id=\"attachment_79403\" style=\"width: 610px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/11\/9780805099775.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-79403\" class=\"wp-image-79403\" src=\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/11\/9780805099775.jpg\" alt=\"9780805099775\" width=\"600\" height=\"527\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/11\/9780805099775.jpg 660w, https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/11\/9780805099775-300x263.jpg 300w\" sizes=\"auto, (min-width: 62.5em) 67vw, 100vw\" \/><\/a><p id=\"caption-attachment-79403\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">Cavett on the cover of <i>Brief Encounters<\/i>.<\/p><\/div>\n<p><em>Forty years ago, <\/em>The Dick Cavett Show<em> was a place where luminaries sparred (e.g., <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=C8m9vDRe8fw\" target=\"_blank\">Gore Vidal and Norman Mailer<\/a>), where reclusive stars lowered their guard (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=LAPDQ5MlLxE\" target=\"_blank\">Marlon Brando<\/a>, Katharine Hepburn, Laurence Olivier), and where musicians were actually interviewed about their music (David Bowie, Janis Joplin, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=FNsPt5T4aZE\" target=\"_blank\">Jimi Hendrix<\/a>, John Lennon). Cavett\u2019s show put an early spotlight on the Watergate scandal, even taping a special episode with the senators in the very chambers where the hearings were taking place. It\u2019s hard to imagine today\u2019s major-network late-night shows doing anything similar.<\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>The Nebraska-born Cavett began in New York as a broke Yale grad attempting an acting career while working as a copy boy at <\/em>Time<em> magazine. One afternoon, with a <\/em>Time<em> envelope in hand, he bluffed his way into <\/em>The Tonight Show<em> studios and handed said envelope, filled with jokes, to Jack Paar, who was then the show\u2019s host. Paar used some of the material that night; <i>Cavett was hired, and booked talent for Paar, briefly, until a writing staff slot<\/i><i> <\/i><i>opened up<\/i><i>. <\/i>Later, he wrote for fellow Nesbaskan Johnny Carson before going out on his own, so to speak.<\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>Cavett, at seventy-seven, keeps busy\u2014for the past several years he\u2019s moonlighted as a columnist for the <\/em>New York Times<em>, and earlier this year he starred in <\/em><a href=\"http:\/\/www.playbill.com\/news\/article\/hellman-v.-mccarthy-starring-dick-cavett-roberta-maxwell-and-marcia-rodd-be-215963\" target=\"_blank\">Hellman v. McCarthy<\/a><em>, a play off Broadway at the Abingdon Theater Company that <\/em><em>explores the legal fallout from a time in \u201979 when Cavett had the novelist and critic Mary McCarthy on his show. <i>McCarthy lambasted Lillian Hellman: \u201cShe really belongs to the past. As I said in an interview, she\u2019s such a dishonest writer that even her <\/i><\/em>and<em>s<i> and <\/i><\/em>the<em><i>s are lies.\u201d Cavett plays himself in the play. \u201cThe funny thing is,\u201d he told the\u00a0<\/i><\/em>Times<em><i>\u00a0when it debuted, \u201cI was the second choice for the role.\u201d<\/i><\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>In July, Cavett made <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=odnaH-KWFqY\" target=\"_blank\">a popular video<\/a> with Dave Hill and Malcolm Gladwell about the Amazon-Hachette dispute; he followed this with an op-ed in <\/em>Time<em> about the prevalence of depression in show business (\u201c<a href=\"http:\/\/time.com\/3106170\/robin-williams-dead-dick-cavett-suicide-depression\/\" target=\"_blank\">Robin Williams Won\u2019t Be the Last Suicidal Star<\/a>\u201d). That same week, <\/em>PBS<em> aired a special, \u201cDick Cavett\u2019s Watergate,\u201d about his role in having publicized the scandal.<\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>Finally, last week saw the publication of Cavett\u2019s new memoir, <\/em><a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=odnaH-KWFqY\" target=\"_blank\">Brief Encounters: Conversations, Magic Moments, and Assorted Hijinks<\/a><em>, with a foreword by Jimmy Fallon. To discuss the book, late-night television, and his writing process, I rang Cavett at his house in Montauk. <\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>In <em>Cavett<\/em>, your book from 1974, you quite vehemently said you had no interest in being a <\/strong><strong>cultural critic.<\/strong><strong>\u00a0But that<\/strong><strong>\u2019s an arguably accurate descriptor for you. <br \/><\/strong><\/p>\n<p>I would never think of that as a description of me. It has a nice sound, I like the alliteration, but other than that, it surprises me when I\u2019m \u00a0called that. Honestly, I don\u2019t think it would have ever occurred to me to think of myself as a writer\/commentator\/ cultural critic \/columnist. Especially for\u00a0<em>The New York Times<\/em>. I\u2019ve had op-ed pieces in the Times over the years when I was pissed off about something. But I always felt alien to friends who knew exactly what they wanted to be. I\u2019m still wondering.<\/p>\n<p>Anyway, the Times offer came over the transom\u2014or out of the blue. (Is it National Clich\u00e9 Week?) and I took the dive. (Another one.) I\u2019ve been told I write well, maybe thanks to two English teacher parents who wrote well, so I took the job. It\u2019s not for the money, I assure you. Someone said, do you want to try a column for the\u00a0<em>Times<\/em>? And I thought, Sure, I guess. How much. And they said two days a week. Most writers would have meant how much money, I guess. And I said, that seems easy enough, and it was\u2014for about three weeks when I was doing two a week. Then I started to get desperate, because I felt I had said everything I would ever be able to say in a column of any kind. It\u2019s always nice when someone remembers a line correctly from something you\u2019ve written. In a Sarah Palin column, I said, \u201cShe seems to have no first language.\u201d And this is much remembered to this very day, I find. Strange.<\/p>\n<p><!--more--><\/p>\n<p><strong>You<\/strong><strong>\u2019ve said that when you were writing for Jack Paar and Johnny Carson you were very prolific, that it just came out of you. But then when you turned to write for yourself, for your nightclub act, you struggled and sweated, as Woody Allen had warned you you might, since writing for yourself is the hardest of chores.<br \/><\/strong><\/p>\n<p>That was a real shock\u2014to learn that I could fill a page and annoy the other writers on the staff of\u00a0<em>The Tonight Show<\/em> by having my stuff ready and handed in before they were half finished. But it is that essential thing, you\u2019ve gotta hear the person you\u2019re writing for in your head accurately with his or her\u2014dreadful phrase, isn\u2019t it?\u2014intonations, phrasing, punctuation, rhythm, all of those essential things so that you don\u2019t hand a Jack Benny joke to Bob Hope. (Need asterisks, young folks, on those names?) So imagine the awfulness of learning that I can\u2019t just put my name at the top of the page and write stuff for my nightclub act at zip speed. It was like\u2014this is a little overdramatic\u2014C. S. Lewis\u2019s book about his wife\u2019s death, where you turn to God for help and you have a door slammed in your face. I had the awful realization, I don\u2019t know what <em>I<\/em> sound like. Eventually, mercifully, you learn, because you have to.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Has that voice changed? Do you find it easier to write in your voice now?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>I don\u2019t think so, but sometimes I wonder what my \u201cvoice\u201d may consist of or what in it might be unconsciously borrowed. Sometimes I think, Hey, that sounds like my old friend, Jean Stafford\u2014flattering myself. A former-producer friend of mine, Ron Fried, said he keeps seeing overtones of S. J. Perelman in my columns. I\u2019ve never tried to sound like S. J. Perelman, and yet sometimes I too see the influence, at least.\u00a0But no one could come near that lapidary comic genius of Uncle Sid.\u00a0I asked him once if he\u2014or I\u2014had thought up the title \u201cDown by the Old Maelstrom.\u201d\u00a0 His \u201cI wish I had\u201d warmed me to the toes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Let<\/strong><strong>\u2019s talk about late night. The people who are able to do the types of interviews you used to do<\/strong><strong>\u2014with authors, senators, intellectuals<\/strong><strong>\u2014are the comedians, people on Comedy Central, or the product of it. Jon Stewart, John Oliver, Stephen Colbert, et cetera. Mainstream late-night shows on traditional networks are pure entertainment talk shows now. Yours sort of straddled the line between the two. <\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Well, as you will readily agree, Stewart and Colbert and Kimmel and Bill Maher and Conan would be all over Watergate if they\u2019d have been lucky enough to have been there at the time. As for a long-form show, I keep hearing people say that we don\u2019t seem to have those any more, of the kind, they\u2019d say, that I did with Katharine Hepburn or George Harrison or Brando and Welles and so on. I love doing a long-form interview\u2014it\u2019s much easier than doing seven minutes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Your show faced criticisms about having so many commercial breaks, or issues with plugging a movie that you didn<\/strong><strong>\u2019t personally like<\/strong><strong>\u2014but shows now seem to be in and of themselves commercials for their guests.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>To be avoided. Between commercials, a starlet, as we used to say, comes on with a very short dress and visible gam, makes a joke about it, and then uses the word\u00a0<em>excited<\/em>\u00a0four times in the next four sentences. About how excited she is about her producer, and excited about the script, and the exciting towel she got at the gym. And she\u2019s super excited to be there. As if all of life strives for a state of perpetual excitement. Excitement isn\u2019t necessarily a good thing for the blood pressure. So you sit through a bewildering, out of context film clip for a movie that will go right past movie theaters on its way to limbo and will badly need the applause sign at the end. And then, with a snap of her gum, she\u2019s off, and you\u2019re on to somebody else. Anybody.<\/p>\n<p><em>Excited<\/em> is almost as overused as\u00a0<em>amazing\u00a0<\/em>and the misused <em>literally<\/em>. News correspondent\u2014\u201cThe senator literally exploded with anger.\u201d Yeah? Well, who cleaned up the mess?<\/p>\n<div><em>Elliott David is a writer and artist living in New York.\u00a0<\/em><\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Forty years ago, The Dick Cavett Show was a place where luminaries sparred (e.g., Gore Vidal and Norman Mailer), where reclusive stars lowered their guard (Marlon Brando, Katharine Hepburn, Laurence Olivier), and where musicians were actually interviewed about their music (David Bowie, Janis Joplin, Jimi Hendrix, John Lennon). Cavett\u2019s show put an early spotlight on [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":34,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[907],"tags":[15991,13419,412,10881,1448,1132,15989,10368,15990,282,7592],"class_list":["post-79401","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-at-work","tag-brief-encounters","tag-comedians","tag-comedy","tag-cultural-criticism","tag-dick-cavett","tag-interviews","tag-late-night-television","tag-memoirs","tag-the-dick-cavett-show","tag-the-new-york-times","tag-tv"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO Premium plugin v25.4 (Yoast SEO v25.4) - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Assorted Hijinks: An Interview with Dick Cavett by Elliott David<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"November 13, 2014 \u2013 Forty years ago, The Dick 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