{"id":79116,"date":"2014-11-05T12:19:42","date_gmt":"2014-11-05T17:19:42","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/?p=79116"},"modified":"2014-11-05T12:19:42","modified_gmt":"2014-11-05T17:19:42","slug":"ways-of-witnessing","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2014\/11\/05\/ways-of-witnessing\/","title":{"rendered":"Ways of Witnessing"},"content":{"rendered":"

Geoff Dyer and John Berger, 1984.<\/em><\/p>\n

\"marxismtoday\"<\/a>

Marxism Today<\/i>, December 1984.<\/p><\/div>\n

\n

I read Berger\u2019s Ways of Seeing<\/em> and then started to read more and more of him, and I found it all very stimulating and exciting. He was doing something that I hadn\u2019t come across before in English writing\u2014bridging the gap between criticism and fiction and so on. All with that level of political engagement that was absolutely de rigueur back in the early eighties. He was my favorite writer, and I interviewed him for Marxism Today<\/em>. \u2014Geoff Dyer, the Art of Nonfiction No. 6<\/a>, 2013<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

John Berger is eighty-eight today\u2014I\u2019d been curious for a while about his interview with Geoff Dyer, so I finally did the obvious thing and Googled it. Lo and behold: the December 1984 issue of Marxism Today<\/em> has been digitally archived by unz.org<\/a>, with the Dyer-Berger exchange complete and unabridged. The interview, \u201cWays of Witnessing,\u201d sits among such fare as \u201cHopes, Dreams & Dirty Nappies\u201d (\u201cWhat can utopias do for mothers and mothers do for utopias?\u201d) and a column called \u201cVideo Viewpoint\u201d (\u201cPerhaps 1984 will be remembered in some small footnote as the year in which video tapes started to live up to the claims several people, mostly video producers to be sure, had been making\u2026\u2009\u201d). The cover story: \u201cSanta\u2019s Dramatic Intervention.\u201d<\/p>\n

At the time, Berger\u00a0was soon to release And Our Faces, My Heart, Brief as Photos<\/a><\/em>, but he doesn\u2019t discuss the new book much. Instead\u2014as you might anticipate given the venue\u2014he and Dyer talk a lot of leftist shop: \u201cMy reading tended to be more anarchist than Marxist-Kropotkin and all the anarchist classics,\u201d Berger says. And on why he never became a card-carrying Communist: \u201cI had reservations about the party line in relation to the arts.\u201d<\/p>\n

Dyer would\u2019ve been twenty-six when this interview came out; there\u2019s not a lot of his voice here, and certainly none of his humor comes through. But you can sense, maybe only because of his later comments, his eagerness to please Berger, or at least to convey the scope of his intellect. Toward its midpoint, the conversation turns to romanticism, and here it\u2019s somewhat less arid: <\/p>\n

\n

Marxism sees history as an arena of struggle but to what extent do you see romanticism or love as a refuge from history and \u201cthe laws of change which spare nothing\u201d?<\/em><\/p>\n

\u2026 During the Soviet revolution and the civil war people didn\u2019t stop falling in love. Think of Mayakovsky who wrote extraordinary love poems at the same time that he was writing political poems. The problem is that in an individual life they often do not confirm one another. If one denies too much those subjective intuitions which romanticism is about and which are frequently expressed in love then something withers. The consistent, logical political line cannot bring them back. When that withering takes place there is political danger.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

But Dyer\u2019s boldest and best question is his last:<\/p>\n

\n

Finally I would like to take a line from the play you have written with Nella Bielski, <\/em>A Question of Geography: \u201cEach of us comes into the world with her or his unique possibility\u2014which is like an aim, or, if you wish, almost like a law. The job of our lives is to become\u2014day by day, year by year, more conscious of that aim so that it can at last be realized.\u201d What do you see as the job of your life?<\/em><\/p>\n

I don\u2019t think I can answer that \u2026 Perhaps I am like all people who tell stories\u2014and I often think now that even when I was writing on art, it was really a way of storytelling\u2014storytellers lose their identity and are open to the lives of other people. Maybe when you look at their entire output you can see something that really belongs to that one person. But at any one moment it is difficult to see what the job your life is because you are so aware of what you lending yourself to. This is perhaps why I use the term \u201cbeing a witness.\u201d One is witness of others but not of oneself.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

Read the whole interview here<\/a>. \u201cBerger is not an academic, but he\u2019s deeply learned and passionate,\u201d Dyer said almost thirty years later. \u201cWhat you get in his books is a total engagement with whatever he happens to be writing about.\u201d<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Geoff Dyer and John Berger, 1984. I read Berger\u2019s Ways of Seeing and then started to read more and more of him, and I found it all very stimulating and exciting. He was doing something that I hadn\u2019t come across before in English writing\u2014bridging the gap between criticism and fiction and so on. All with […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":38,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[419],"tags":[9158,3156,15939,1761,1132,573,8328,3511,15938,14185,4975],"class_list":["post-79116","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-arts-culture","tag-birthdays","tag-communism","tag-defunct-magazines","tag-geoff-dyer","tag-interviews","tag-john-berger","tag-marxism","tag-marxism-today","tag-the-art-of-nonfiction","tag-the-eighties","tag-ways-of-seeing"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"\nGeoff Dyer and John Berger, 1984<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Dan Piepenbring examines the interview conducted by a then twenty-six year-old Dyer in Marxism Today.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2014\/11\/05\/ways-of-witnessing\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Ways of Witnessing by Dan Piepenbring\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"November 5, 2014 \u2013 Geoff Dyer and John Berger, 1984. 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