{"id":162977,"date":"2023-01-12T11:15:51","date_gmt":"2023-01-12T16:15:51","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/?p=162977"},"modified":"2025-01-13T16:42:29","modified_gmt":"2025-01-13T21:42:29","slug":"an-angle-in-my-eye-an-interview-with-mary-manning","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2023\/01\/12\/an-angle-in-my-eye-an-interview-with-mary-manning\/","title":{"rendered":"An Angle in My Eye: An Interview with Lee Mary Manning"},"content":{"rendered":"
\"\"

From\u00a0Ciao!<\/i>, in issue no. 242 (Winter 2022). Courtesy of Mary Manning and Canada Gallery.<\/p><\/div>\n

Lee Mary Manning\u2019s <\/em>portfolio<\/em><\/a> for the Winter issue of the<\/em> Review documents a summer spent in Italy. Their collages are perfect expressions of the special kind of vision you have on vacation, when everything\u2014pizza receipts, sidewalk seating, wildflowers\u2014looks new and exciting, strangely saturated. Manning\u2019s work not only captures but literally incorporates their world in order to rearrange it, ever so gently, at an angle: in <\/em>Ciao!, there\u2019s a cantaloupe wrapper and a bag from a pharmacy, plus photographs of their friends, of a Nicola De Maria fresco, and of a performance of a Trisha Brown dance. Manning was born in Alton, Illinois in 1972 and lives in New York City. In 2006, they began sharing digital photographs of their everyday life on their blog alongside scans of objects and links to the work of musicians, filmmakers, writers, and other artists they admire. Today, their work appears in print and on gallery walls across North America. The book Manning was preparing last summer, <\/em>Grace Is Like New Music, a collection of images spanning ten years of their work, will be published by Canada Gallery in February. We talked about looking at images nonlinearly, as well as Italian graphic design, postmodern choreography, and bags (paper and plastic). <\/em><\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/p>\n

Do you take photos differently when you\u2019re on vacation?<\/p>\n

MANNING<\/p>\n

Yes. For better, for worse, you\u2019re changed when you\u2019re on vacation. There can be a long stretch of time in New York City where I\u2019m just not in the flow of being inspired. When you travel, you\u2019re plucked out of the sky and plopped down on the other side of a huge body of water. You get off a plane and it\u2019s a shock to be in a different light.<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/p>\n

Where were you when you took the photos for this portfolio?<\/p>\n

MANNING<\/p>\n

The photos and the ephemera are all from a six-week period I spent at the Mahler & LeWitt Studios residency in a smallish town called Spoleto in central Italy, about an hour north of Rome. I\u2019m calling it Rome\u2019s upstate. The sculptor Anna Mahler and the painter Sol LeWitt both lived and worked there. They never met, but their studios were in such insane proximity. The residencies take place primarily in Sol\u2019s studio. The energy of that space was infectious. I was working there while sequencing the photos for my book in these gridded arrangements. When I was done, I laughed, because I didn\u2019t even really think about the connection until then. I thought, Oh my God, this is a vibe. It was like osmosis.<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/p>\n

Oh, yes, because of his squares<\/a>! I was actually going to ask about rectangles, and the geometry of your work. Do you ever make nonrectangular collages?<\/p>\n

MANNING<\/p>\n

It\u2019s funny. Even with ephemera, it\u2019s rare that I choose to use something oddly shaped. I\u2019ve made several pieces that include butterfly or moth wings. But even then, they always sit in a rectangular shape: a frame or page, for example.<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/p>\n

What happens later, in your studio?<\/p>\n

MANNING<\/p>\n

Much of what I do there is envision arrangements and relationships between images. I have a long table and a magnetic wall. The table is where most of those arrangements happen, and the wall is where larger groupings come together. This process tends to be playful. I might start out by setting a bunch of pictures on a napkin and saying, Well, that looks really cool. And then just sitting with that arrangement, and maybe knowing that I won\u2019t use it but that I\u2019ve come one step closer. Later, maybe the images that were in harmony with one another will stay and the napkin will go. Sometimes using ephemera feels like a trick, a fun kind of device. But I want to find the gentlest version of the arrangement. It\u2019s like letting something seep through a mesh sieve and seeing what stays.<\/p>\n

People like to ask me, Why did you put these two things together? But it\u2019s the images and their relationships with one another that tell me where they want to go. I like to allow space for the viewer to come up with their own understanding of the dynamics present in the work, whether it\u2019s the relationships between the ephemera and the photos, or the size of the photos, or the juxtaposition of a blank page with a full page. It\u2019s a funny time in the world of images, especially because of social media, which directs our visual attention in specific, programmed ways. It\u2019s exciting not be told how to look for once. In the three-hundred-page book of my work I just made, there are no titles on any work, no dates, no page numbers. I wanted a reader to open the book and feel like, You can go this way; you can go that way. Choose your own adventure.<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/p>\n

When you look at the images in your Paris Review<\/em> portfolio now, are the memories of those moments still attached for you? Or have they become flattened, so to speak, into the artwork?<\/p>\n

MANNING<\/p>\n

No. The photos are so personal. Despite what I said about creating mystery and choosing your own adventure, I\u2019m very happy to tell the story behind every photograph.<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/p>\n

Tell me some of those.<\/p>\n

\"\"

From\u00a0Ciao!<\/em>, in issue no. 242 (Winter 2022). Courtesy of Mary Manning and Canada Gallery.<\/p><\/div>\n

 <\/p>\n

MANNING<\/p>\n

The photo in this one is in the little piazza around the corner from the studio, at the bottom of this very tiny slope. I took it through this narrow walkway in the morning, when it was incredibly bright. And then the brown bag underneath is from a pharmacy or a hardware store. I think it was a hardware store.<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/p>\n

They have so many different types of bags in Italy!<\/p>\n

MANNING<\/p>\n

Yes, and the graphics and the fonts in Italy\u2014 they blew my mind. On the right, for example, is a folder from an office supplies store, which was the only art supplies store in town, a completely jam-packed, very sweet mom-and-pop place. The folders there had to be thirty or forty years old, maybe more.<\/p>\n

\"\"

From\u00a0Ciao!<\/em>, in issue no. 242 (Winter 2022). Courtesy of Mary Manning and Canada Gallery.<\/p><\/div>\n

 <\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/p>\n

The depth perception in all of these spreads is so disorienting. Maybe because there are so many different textures, so many different degrees of three-dimensionality. How do you think about perspective in your work?<\/p>\n

MANNING<\/p>\n

I think there\u2019s something fun about the kind of zoom or bend you see in these images. When I first started taking photos, I used a digital camera. I was hyperconcentrated on zoom. When I switched to analog, the types of pictures I was taking didn\u2019t change, but the zoom changed\u2014you can\u2019t zoom as easily with an analog camera. I realized, \u201cI have a roll of film, I can only take this shot. I can\u2019t crop it. I\u2019m not interested in doing work on it after the fact. I get what I get.\u201d I had already trained my eye from seven years of taking forty thousand digital images a day. Now, I literally have to use my body to figure out what I want to see in the frame.<\/p>\n

I\u2019m not necessarily conscious of trying to knock off the stability of an image, but I do like upsetting the very pristine. Maybe there\u2019s an angle in my eye somewhere. I\u2019m lopsided.<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/p>\n

What were you doing in Spoleto when you weren\u2019t taking pictures?<\/p>\n

MANNING<\/p>\n

I read a lot: the book you see in the portfolio, Goethe\u2019s Italian Journey<\/em>, which also references Spoleto; a book by Imogen Binnie, Nevada<\/a>; and a book of Wolfgang Tillmans\u2019s interviews, which are so inspiring. I feel a total affinity for him as a human and for what he\u2019s doing.<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/p>\n

Are there particular writers who capture in language something similar to what you do in images?<\/p>\n

MANNING<\/p>\n

Mostly poets. In poetry, the words are strung together in a way that\u2019s similarly nonlinear but has a logic. For the poet, it might just be that a certain word has<\/em> to go next. And it\u2019s up to the reader or the listener to figure out what\u2019s happening in that language or that cadence. I love Mary Ruefle, Alice Notley, and Tim Dlugos, for example. But film and dance have a closer relationship to my work. Especially modern dance and postmodern choreography\u2014they have the same kind of feeling I\u2019m trying to convey or experience.<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/p>\n

Is that because, in modern dance, the movement is nonlinear? Before, you talked about wanting your audience to navigate your book in a variety of directions.<\/p>\n

MANNING<\/p>\n

Completely. That summer, while I was at the residency, I saw these amazing films by Michael Blackwood, a filmmaker who spent a lot of time with artists, choreographers, and composers, making portraits of them. In one that I saw\u2014Making Dances: Seven Post-Modern Choreographers<\/em>\u2014the choreographer Kenneth King described his work like this: \u201cIt\u2019s about rhythm \u2026 It\u2019s about signals. When you work with open form, you\u2019re proliferating or boiling up more pulses and impulses \u2026 remembering that the grid is like an abacus, so that the movements are like pieces of currency or coinage opening up space.\u201d I wrote that down in my notebook. I thought, Maybe that\u2019s it. Maybe that\u2019s what I do.<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/p>\n

Your work also reminds me a lot of Tumblr or Pinterest.<\/p>\n

MANNING<\/p>\n

It is a lot like Tumblr in that each collection is a kind of visual catalog, much like the ephemera that you come across in image blogs. The Tumblr era of image sharing and collecting was a huge part of what propelled me to share my work more widely. I started a photo blog in the early aughts, and then I was part of a huge, robust group of other image freaks. There were these image aggregators that would aggregate fifty to two hundred new posts every day from other blogs that you followed. I was constantly pulling images from these archival Tumblrs, blogs that would reshare found images, and then using them on my own blog. I had a website that is still online called Unchanging Window<\/a>. I would use it like Instagram: I\u2019d post a series of images every day. And there was a page called Other, and that was my version of Tumblr, or like an homage to other Tumblrs. I got a scanner and would scan cool plastic bags that I got. That\u2019s when I realized, Oh, yeah. You\u2019re permitted to take these things from 3D-analog-real-thing world and bring them into 2D-internet world.<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/p>\n

Do you have a favorite kind of souvenir?<\/p>\n

MANNING<\/p>\n

Bags. One hundred percent. Paper bags. I love plastic bags, too, but the paper ones really do it for me.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Olivia Kan-Sperling is an assistant editor at\u00a0<\/em>The Paris Review.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

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