{"id":137168,"date":"2019-06-12T09:00:05","date_gmt":"2019-06-12T13:00:05","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/?p=137168"},"modified":"2019-06-12T12:11:02","modified_gmt":"2019-06-12T16:11:02","slug":"monstrous-cute-an-interview-with-mona-awad","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2019\/06\/12\/monstrous-cute-an-interview-with-mona-awad\/","title":{"rendered":"Monstrous Cute: An Interview with Mona Awad"},"content":{"rendered":"
\"\"<\/a>

Mona Awad (Photo: Brigitte Lacombe)<\/p><\/div>\n

 <\/p>\n

Mona Awad\u2019s first novel, the prismatic and devastating <\/em>13 Ways of Looking at a Fat Girl, started working its way into me by the end of the second chapter. I\u2019d been feeling awful for the protagonist, Lizzie\u2014it\u2019s hard not to. She seemed, to me, so vulnerable, so unaware, so needy. But then, a sharp shift happens: Lizzie suddenly seemed fully aware of her vulnerability\u2019s pull, and starts using it, inverting and playing the power dynamic, making a fool of the drunken, failed musician who falsely believes he\u2019s the center of her world. I broke out in a grin and thought, \u201cThis seems quite impish.\u201d It\u2019s one of the few times that book made me smile\u2014the pedicure scene made me sob, and the ending is wonderfully mysterious and lonely.<\/em><\/p>\n

Transformations, inversions, and longing are Awad\u2019s specialty, and in her new novel,<\/em> Bunny, the impish quality is turned on in full. Samantha Heather Mackey (what a name!) is the archetypal outsider at an exclusive east coast M.F.A. program. The program\u2019s mean girl clique is cloying, referring to themselves and each other as \u201cBunny\u201d (how perfect in its layers of meaning\u2014cutesy and pagan at once), while they critique Sam\u2019s work as being \u201cin love with its own outsiderness.\u201d Sam gets an invitation to join the Bunnies\u2019 off-campus salon-style workshops. She drags her feet, but, of course, she can\u2019t resist. The workshops quickly reveal themselves as literal magical coven meetings. In the name of their artistic \u201cpractice,\u201d the women conjure broken humanoid men (who look sort of like \u201cpre-TB Keats\u201d or Tim Riggins or Dracula or James Dean)\u2014pseudo boyfriends who they refer to as \u201cdrafts.\u201d The Bunnies themselves are rendered in a hilarious mix of self-seriousness and cluelessness, giving and withholding pep talks throughout:<\/em><\/p>\n

Bunny, we know you sometimes get depressed that your sister is this incredible neurologist in training or whatever \u2026 But then the day came when you went into your mother\u2019s room and dragged her diamond ring across her vanity mirror \u2026 etching messages from the goddess of Wisdom \u2026 That was the day you started giving your special gift of you to the world. Sure your sister saves lives, Bunny, but you save souls with your diamond proems. And how many people can say that?<\/em><\/p><\/blockquote>\n

The first part of <\/em>Bunny is a shifting, gleeful collage of cultural references and stereotypes. Then, the novel breaks and reforms its own logic, going deeper into the nature of creation, friendship, community, and the boundaries between reality and perception. The ending, which I won\u2019t give away, has some achingly sad, and very real moments.<\/em><\/p>\n

Mona and I met at a reading last March. After gushing a little at her, I asked if she\u2019d like to do an interview over email.\u00a0<\/em><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/p>\n

Did you do research for Bunny<\/em>? The Workshop meetings are, structurally, so much like what I\u2019ve read of those horrible \u201ceye-witness accounts\u201d of witches\u2019 sabbaths in the Middle Ages\u2014but a candy-coated version. A pink sabbath!<\/p>\n

AWAD<\/p>\n

I love the idea of a pink sabbath. Very creepy and very apt. I was definitely trying to evoke a coven atmosphere with the Workshops, both the on- and off-campus ones. But I wanted it to be playful and absurd, too, because, you know, bunnies. These are writing students trying their hand at the occult for the purposes of creating hot guys, a process they describe as high art. So it couldn\u2019t take itself too seriously. But so much about creativity is mysterious that it felt right to go down that road. It\u2019s no accident, I think, that people in the writing and M.F.A. communities sometimes reference magic and the occult. I\u2019ve also done some ritual work, but those experiences didn\u2019t really inform my approach. If I\u2019m being honest, mostly I just thought of a combination of Carrie\u2019s telekinetic powers and a child\u2019s idea of a s\u00e9ance. Definitely the movie The Craft<\/em> played its role, too. Teen witches with great outfits. Can\u2019t go wrong.<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/p>\n

I love the comparison of M.F.A. programs to teenage, slumber-party s\u00e9ances\u2014it\u2019s such a great, scathing setup. When did that comparison really start to click for you? What was the process of writing Bunny<\/em>?<\/p>\n

AWAD<\/p>\n

Oh, the comparison started to click pretty soon after I started. It just felt true, graduate students acting like teenagers. It was funnier that way, and it intensified the horror and anxiety around romance. There is also just something very not-adult about grad school, no matter how old you are when you go. It\u2019s a sheltered, insular environment that has its own language, its own very particular sense of time and space, and I think it can really reinforce all the dynamics of teen drama and junior high. The writing process was actually pretty fluid because of that inherent connection between those two worlds\u2014I had permission to go full teen movie so long as I continued to amp up the rarified grad school setting, the M.F.A.-isms.<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/p>\n

Your witches, the Bunnies, feel adolescent. My Little Ponies, cupcakes, prom dances, declarations of love, and high school crushes replace the blood, goats, and murderous orgies of more traditional witches. I felt much more disturbed by the cutesy stuff\u2014it reinforces a narrative of essential feminine sweetness that can range from annoying to downright oppressive. Samantha is in opposition to this, but she still feels a real pull to join them. How did you approach that balance? I feel like these adolescent imprints linger a lot longer\u2014way, way into and past your twenties\u2014than a lot of people are comfortable admitting.<\/p>\n

AWAD<\/p>\n

Oh, for sure those adolescent imprints linger longer! I still have them and I\u2019m forty. The girl clique versus outsider dynamic is very childish, but you can find yourself in it at any age. It\u2019s like wanting to be invited to that party you have no desire to go to. You still want to be invited. It\u2019s human nature to want to belong. For all the romanticism attached to it, being an outsider is actually a very lonely thing. It would be so much easier for Samantha if she could love the Bunnies, love all the cutesy stuff. I think the draw for her stems from a vulnerability that\u2019s tied to her insecurity, and maybe it does appeal to her childhood self. I myself am terrified of cutesy stuff, but I\u2019m also deeply drawn to it. It\u2019s pretty, it\u2019s shiny, it\u2019s fuzzy, it\u2019s smiling. I distrust its unholy power over me. It is like a spell. There\u2019s a great article I read called \u201cMonstrous\/Cute\u201d by Maja Brzozowska-Brywczynska, which is all about how cuteness can be a legitimate and complex form of monstrousness. All monsters are seductive and Samantha\u2019s not immune.<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/p>\n

The Drafts are not there for sexual gratification\u2014though that\u2019s the initial idea. The pleasure the Bunnies get from them is in being observed and validated. They rub the Bunnies\u2019 feet, shower them with praise, insult their other female competitors. For example, a draft named Beowulf says to Samantha, \u201cYour beauty is nuanced and labyrinthine like a sentence by Proust,\u201d while another draft, Blake, adds \u201cMelanie Shingler is a whore compared to you \u2026 Pidgeon-toed. Bad eyeliner.\u201d But they never get to have sex! It\u2019s all talk. Can you talk more about the role they play?<\/p>\n

AWAD<\/p>\n

I see the Drafts as the Bunnies\u2019 boy-toys, their pets. The Drafts are also a manifestation of the Bunnies\u2019 desires and fears around romance and creativity. The Bunnies want dates, yes, but they want dates they can orchestrate, control. Because they\u2019re writers, there\u2019s obviously a metaphor there about creative work and the dangers of trying to control your material. George Saunders has this incredible video talk about bad writing called \u201cOn Story.\u201d He likens a bad story to a date where you plan out everything you\u2019re going to say in advance. \u201c7:05: Compliment her outfit,\u201d \u201c7:10: Ask about the mother.\u201d The date\u2019s going to go terribly and you\u2019re going to sound like an automaton. So why do that? Because, he says, \u201cit\u2019s scary to be on a date.\u201d Bad writing comes from trying to control the outcome because you\u2019re afraid of not knowing. That\u2019s where the Drafts come in. They\u2019re the Bunnies\u2019 bad writing. Hence their dicklessness. Sam\u2019s creations, on the other hand, can\u2019t be controlled. She doesn\u2019t have or exert that kind of power or mastery over her material. To a fault. As a result, her creations are more human, but her problem is that the creative act is so unconscious that she can\u2019t distinguish between reality and art.<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/p>\n

Do you feel like you come at writing first drafts from a place of too much control or not enough?<\/p>\n

AWAD<\/p>\n

The unconscious is a tricky thing to trust\u2014it can definitely reveal our intentions in ways that we don\u2019t intend. As a writer, that\u2019s exciting and scary. It\u2019s incredible to me when you write, just how much you end up unconsciously planting into the story. Stuff that is useful for the story and stuff from your own soul that may or may not serve the story at all. When I\u2019m writing, I have a lot of faith in the unconscious but it can, and has, led me astray. That said, I\u2019m also very wary of control. I try not to mess too much with my sentences. I try not to force the plot, but to imagine where the characters might lead themselves. I think striking a balance between unconscious play and control is important. Sam and the Bunnies are at opposite ends of that spectrum. My hope is to be somewhere in the middle, but I\u2019ve erred in both directions.<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/p>\n

Samantha feels like a descendent of Veronica from the film Heathers<\/em>, a perfect insider\/outsider. The Workshop instructor is nicknamed Fosco after a villain in the gothic novel The Woman in White<\/em>, Ava and Samantha listen to The Cure and Joy Division, Ava is described as looking like David Bowie. These references feel very careful, like there\u2019s a lot about lineage, transformation, and tradition going on. How do you choose which pop culture references to include?<\/p>\n

AWAD<\/p>\n

Well, a lot of that is just having fun with what I love. I love gothic novels, I love The Cure, Joy Division, and New Order. I wanted to write a book that evoked those worlds while still being its own thing. Veronica from Heathers<\/em> is one of my favorite characters because she\u2019s so dynamic and unpredictable. There\u2019s a lot of opportunity for surprise, for betrayal, for peril and transformation, for conflicting desires and fears to come up and manifest. The outsider is one of the most relatable characters. We\u2019ve all been inside and we\u2019ve all been outside at different times in our lives.<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/p>\n

Do you have a favorite outsider from antiquity?<\/p>\n

AWAD<\/p>\n

This isn\u2019t really from antiquity, but I do love all of Jean Rhys\u2019s protagonists. They\u2019re all misfits and Jean Rhys is so good at capturing a sense of profound alienation from the world around them. But her characters are also very much in the world as well, and they bear the scars of it. I also love Sara Shaw from The Torn Skirt <\/em>by Rebecca Godfrey. She\u2019s a high school student who ends up committing a crime. The narrator is so angsty and alive but there\u2019s a sorrow and a raw vulnerability there, too.<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/p>\n

There\u2019s an eerie line between projections and reality in the book. Do you think perceiving reality is a kind of magical act? Do you think making work\u2014writing music, film, pop culture, et cetera\u2014is a kind of conjuring?<\/p>\n

AWAD<\/p>\n

I actually do. Looking as a kind of conjuring is something I was very interested in exploring in 13 Ways of Looking at a Fat Girl<\/em> and I\u2019m definitely exploring it in Bunny<\/em>. To what degree do loneliness, desire, and fear actually conjure a kind of reality, whether wondrous or horrific? Samantha is a very unreliable narrator so there\u2019s a real tension in whether her experiences of the world are supernatural or the product of her imagination. But we\u2019re all unreliable narrators. We\u2019re all either inside or outside a moment and both produce a kind of blindness that then creates an experience of reality.<\/p>\n

As for art as conjuring, definitely. I\u2019m sure you have a perspective on this, too, and I\u2019d love to hear it. I\u2019m a big believer in discipline and regularly showing up for a number of hours every day because that is the only way I\u2019ve ever been able to get any real writing done and the only way I know how to finish a book. But I can\u2019t deny the mystery of the process either because there are really times when it feels like channeling, when it feels like there\u2019s a helping hand or voice in the room, pushing you forward and it\u2019s exhilarating. That was how it felt writing the first draft of Bunny<\/em>. I was exhilarated for most of it. And then that feeling would leave me and I would feel shut out and empty inside. Whether that\u2019s just chemicals in the brain or magic, I don\u2019t know. But it feels like magic.<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/p>\n

I can\u2019t tell if I think making work is conjuring, or really good sleight of hand. I love those writing days when it feels like the steps are all laid out, like I\u2019m experiencing the scene in real time. But, the craft part, the correcting, editing, is a sleight-of-hand style of magic. It\u2019s all about creating an illusion, for sure. On that note\u2014what\u2019s your take on MFA programs? Do you think writing can be taught, or is the community the asset? Bunny<\/em> is very cheeky about both of those notions.<\/p>\n

AWAD<\/p>\n

I think the skepticism and critique of higher learning and the institutionalization of art making are important. Humans are funny and flawed and all of our systems and communities are going to unintentionally reveal that in some way\u2014the writing community and M.F.A. programs are no exception. But I\u2019ve also come through them and benefitted immensely from these systems. It\u2019s an extraordinary opportunity to be able to focus on a project exclusively for a couple of years and to have generous and intelligent readers and, hopefully, financial support. It\u2019s how I finished my first novel. A community can be a wonderful thing, especially if you\u2019ve been writing on your own for a long time. But I don\u2019t know if an M.F.A. program can really teach you how to write. What you said about experiencing a scene in real time when you\u2019re writing\u2014that really is the best when that happens and I\u2019m not sure that such experiences can be taught so much as tuned in to. I do think workshops can make you more aware of what you\u2019re putting on the page, of what\u2019s important to you, of what you really want to say and they can also encourage you when you need it. But Bunny<\/em> is definitely cheeky about it all, too, because it should be. A degree of irreverence is healthy and necessary in the arts. And a sense of humor. You don\u2019t want to take it all too seriously or you\u2019ll take it all to heart.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Halle Butler is a Granta\u00a0Best Young American Novelist and a National Book Foundation \u201c5 Under 35\u201d Honoree. She is the author of the novels\u00a0<\/span><\/em>Jillian<\/a>\u00a0\u200band\u00a0<\/span><\/em>The New Me<\/a> .<\/em><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

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