{"id":130088,"date":"2018-10-16T11:00:46","date_gmt":"2018-10-16T15:00:46","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/?p=130088"},"modified":"2018-10-16T10:02:27","modified_gmt":"2018-10-16T14:02:27","slug":"a-lost-exchange-between-burroughs-and-ginsberg","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2018\/10\/16\/a-lost-exchange-between-burroughs-and-ginsberg\/","title":{"rendered":"A Lost Exchange Between Burroughs and Ginsberg"},"content":{"rendered":"<div id=\"attachment_130091\" style=\"width: 1034px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/10\/ginsberg-and-burroughs-1.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-130091\" class=\"size-full wp-image-130091\" src=\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/10\/ginsberg-and-burroughs-1.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1024\" height=\"809\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/10\/ginsberg-and-burroughs-1.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/10\/ginsberg-and-burroughs-1-300x237.jpg 300w, https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/10\/ginsberg-and-burroughs-1-768x607.jpg 768w\" sizes=\"auto, (min-width: 62.5em) 67vw, 100vw\" \/><\/a><p id=\"caption-attachment-130091\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">Photo: Hank O\u2019Neal.<\/p><\/div>\n<p><em>In 1992, five years before his death, Allen Ginsberg visited William S. Burroughs\u2019s home in Lawrence, Kansas. Over the course of four days, the two Beats chatted about everything from shamanism to punk rock, from Jane Bowles to David Cronenberg. <\/em>Don\u2019t Hide the Madness: William S. Burroughs in Conversation with Allen Ginsberg<em>, edited by Steven Taylor and published this week by Three Rooms Press, collects for the first time this intimate, sprawling exchange. In the excerpt printed below, Burroughs and Ginsberg discuss the inspiration behind the infamous<\/em>\u00a0Naked Lunch\u00a0<em>chapter<\/em> <em>\u201cThe Market.\u201d<\/em><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">GINSBERG<\/p>\n<p>One thing I remember, actually, at some point or other, you and Lucien and Kerouac got me on a couch and took down my pants.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">BURROUGHS<\/p>\n<p>I don\u2019t remember that.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">GINSBERG<\/p>\n<p>[laughing] \u2019Cause I \u2026 It was thrilling, and I got a hard-on, I remember. I was ashamed. Because it was Lucien there.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">BURROUGHS<\/p>\n<p>Should be.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">GINSBERG<\/p>\n<p>On the couch, in front of the window.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">BURROUGHS<\/p>\n<p>Yes. I know where the couch was. Typical railroad apartment, where they usually had the bathtub in the kitchen.\u00a0<!--more--><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">GINSBERG<\/p>\n<p>Yeah, I had one there.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">BURROUGHS<\/p>\n<p>Typical slum.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">GINSBERG<\/p>\n<p>Actually, I ran into a girl who\u2019s living there now who keeps inviting me to come back and see it.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">BURROUGHS<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019d be interesting.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">GINSBERG<\/p>\n<p>A friend of the rock group Sonic Youth that plays with you\u2014<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">BURROUGHS<\/p>\n<p>Who?<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">GINSBERG<\/p>\n<p>Sonic Youth is a rock group.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">BURROUGHS<\/p>\n<p>Yes.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">GINSBERG<\/p>\n<p>She\u2019s one of the singer friends of theirs.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">BURROUGHS<\/p>\n<p>Yes.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">GINSBERG<\/p>\n<p>And she\u2019s now living in my old apartment. But one thing I remember very clearly is the origin of \u201cThe Market\u201d or Interzone and market \u2026<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">BURROUGHS<\/p>\n<p>Yes.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">GINSBERG<\/p>\n<p>\u2026 fantasy with you and \u2026 looking out the window, and you saw a neighbor lady lean out with a very intense expression and pull in the laundry and the laundry line. You remember that?<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">BURROUGHS<\/p>\n<p>No. But I know now about those laundry lines.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">GINSBERG<\/p>\n<p>And you saw the laundry lines and then \u2026 all the fire escapes, and from that rose a routine about balconies crisscrossing in the void and \u2026<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">BURROUGHS<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\">Um hm yeah yeah um hm \u2026<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">GINSBERG<\/p>\n<p>And lines of ropes connecting buildings \u2026<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">BURROUGHS<\/p>\n<p>Exactly \u2026<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">GINSBERG<\/p>\n<p>I remember you looked out of the window and then were impressed by the expression of the woman\u2019s face, \u2019cause \u2026 if you could look up a minute \u2026 she leaned out like that only, you know, with a great intensity of expression and extending her body out pulling \u2026 with her hand out grasping.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">BURROUGHS<\/p>\n<p>Grasping. I remember.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">GINSBERG<\/p>\n<p>You were imitating her avaricious gesture, grasping and pulling the laundry line, and from that was the seed of \u201cThe Market.\u201d<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">BURROUGHS<\/p>\n<p>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">GINSBERG<\/p>\n<p>Now do you have any visual memory of that outside of the window at all, the laundry lines?<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">BURROUGHS<\/p>\n<p>No, but I know I can see \u2026 the laundry lines are a feature of those apartments, and their laundry\u2019s on the balcony. You\u2019ll find that in \u2026 balcony \u2026 in sort of, slums all over the world.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">GINSBERG<\/p>\n<p>Yeah, Naples.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">BURROUGHS<\/p>\n<p>Naples. I was thinking of that. Naples and Marseille and all kinds of places.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">GINSBERG<\/p>\n<p>Actually, that photograph of Kerouac that I have \u2026<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">BURROUGHS<\/p>\n<p>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">GINSBERG<\/p>\n<p>You can actually see the laundry line \u2026 those specific laundry lines. Did you ever notice that in that photo?<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">BURROUGHS<\/p>\n<p>I think so, yeah.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">GINSBERG<\/p>\n<p>It takes a very good printer to get them because it was very faint \u2026 sky.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><em>Read <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/interviews\/4424\/william-s-burroughs-the-art-of-fiction-no-36-william-s-burroughs\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">William S. Burroughs<\/a>\u2019s and <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/interviews\/4389\/allen-ginsberg-the-art-of-poetry-no-8-allen-ginsberg\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Allen Ginsberg<\/a>\u2019s Writers at Work interviews.<\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>Excerpted from <\/em><a href=\"http:\/\/threeroomspress.com\/authors\/dont-hide-the-madness-william-s-burroughs-in-conversation-with-allen-ginsberg\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Don\u2019t Hide the Madness: William S. Burroughs in Conversation with Allen Ginsberg<\/a><em>, edited by\u00a0Steven Taylor. Reprinted\u00a0with the permission of Three Rooms Press.\u00a0<\/em><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>The two Beats met in 1992 to discuss bathtubs, balconies, and an infamous section of \u2018Naked Lunch.\u2019<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1622,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[419],"tags":[699,4423,35117,8668,1983,17379,4550,13288,38858,862,13771,38861,22279,31890,5127,2619,12783,4537,165,2428,38860,10402,38859,4424],"class_list":["post-130088","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-arts-culture","tag-allen-ginsberg","tag-beat","tag-beat-generation","tag-beats","tag-conversation","tag-counterculture","tag-david-cronenberg","tag-demons","tag-dont-hide-the-madness","tag-drugs","tag-fifties","tag-hippie","tag-hippie-lit","tag-howl","tag-jack-kerouac","tag-kansas","tag-lawrence","tag-naked-lunch","tag-poetry","tag-sixties","tag-slums","tag-sonic-youth","tag-three-rooms-press","tag-william-s-burroughs"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO Premium plugin v25.4 (Yoast SEO v25.4) - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>A Lost Exchange Between Burroughs and Ginsberg by William S. 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