{"id":115093,"date":"2017-09-06T16:52:47","date_gmt":"2017-09-06T20:52:47","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/?p=115093"},"modified":"2017-09-08T10:52:06","modified_gmt":"2017-09-08T14:52:06","slug":"the-ashbery-files","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2017\/09\/06\/the-ashbery-files\/","title":{"rendered":"The Ashbery Files"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/09\/ashbery-hero_1.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-115110\" src=\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/09\/ashbery-hero_1.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1092\" height=\"630\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/09\/ashbery-hero_1.jpg 1092w, https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/09\/ashbery-hero_1-300x173.jpg 300w, https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/09\/ashbery-hero_1-768x443.jpg 768w, https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/09\/ashbery-hero_1-1024x591.jpg 1024w\" sizes=\"auto, (min-width: 62.5em) 67vw, 100vw\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>John Ashbery was a prolific contributor to <em>The Paris Review<\/em>. Over the years, we published forty of his poems,\u00a0plus two\u00a0long prose pieces, a series\u00a0of collages, and an Art of Poetry interview.<\/p>\n<p>From an early age, he started cropping up\u00a0in other people\u2019s interviews, too. Already in 1966, Allen Ginsberg was comparing Ashbery\u00a0to Alexander Pope (\u201cI was listening to him read\u00a0<em>The Skaters<\/em>, and it sounded as inventive and exquisite, in all its parts, as\u00a0<em>The Rape of the Lock<\/em>\u201d). By the 1980s, Philip Larkin could use Ashbery\u00a0as a stand-in for all that was hip and threatening in American poetry: \u201cI\u2019ve never been to America &#8230;\u00a0<span style=\"color: #414141;\">And of course I\u2019m so deaf now that I shouldn\u2019t dare. Someone would say, What about Ashbery, and I\u2019d say, I\u2019d prefer strawberry, that kind of thing.\u201d Whether we were interviewing Seamus Heaney, Jorie Graham, Edmund White, Helen\u00a0Vendler\u2014it turned out to be impossible to discuss their work without at least mentioning his.\u00a0And it is worth pointing out that this was post-edits. Often, at least in recent years, Ashbery\u2019s\u00a0influence or example seemed\u00a0too obvious to discuss, so his name ended up on the cutting-room floor.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Here, in no particular order, are some Ashbery sightings from the Writers at Work interviews:<\/p>\n<p><!--more--><\/p>\n<blockquote><p>When I introduced John Ashbery at one of the poetry readings in the old days at Yale, I heard for the first time \u201cWet Casements.\u201d How it ravished my heart away the moment I heard it! Certainly when I recite that poem myself and remember the original experience of hearing him deliver it, it\u2019s hard to see how any poem could be more adequate. Clearly it is not a diminished or finished art form as long as a poem like \u201cWet Casements\u201d is still possible.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/interviews\/2225\/harold-bloom-the-art-of-criticism-no-1-harold-bloom\" target=\"_blank\">Harold Bloom, The Art of Criticism No. 1, issue no. 118\u00a0(Spring 1991)<\/a><\/p>\n<p>He refuses to raise his voice; many poets have fashioned their work from him. He finds new tunes because he has a wonderful ear. He has so much to say &#8230; all these almost undetectable references. Since he gets a lot of attention, many poets are going to fashion their work on his. This kind of thing can be dull in the wrong hands\u2014the distinction needs to be made between dull books and quiet books.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/interviews\/1961\/amy-clampitt-the-art-of-poetry-no-45-amy-clampitt\" target=\"_blank\">Amy Clampitt, The Art of Poetry No. 45, issue no. 126 (Spring 1993)<\/a><\/p>\n<p>I admired Ashbery [at Harvard]; we\u00a0<em>all<\/em>\u00a0admired John, although in general we were not a mutual admiration society. In general we were murderous. John was at that time reticent, shy, precocious. He had published in\u00a0<em>Poetry<\/em>\u00a0while he was still at Deerfield Academy. On the\u00a0<em>Advocate<\/em>, we were terribly serious about the poems we published. We would stay up until two or three in the morning arguing about whether a poem was good enough to be in the magazine. One time we had a half-page gap and asked John to come up with a poem. After some prodding, he conceded that\u00a0<em>maybe<\/em>\u00a0he had a poem. He went back to his room to get it, and it took him forty minutes. We didn\u2019t know it then, but of course\u2014he later admitted\u2014he went home and wrote the poem. In 1989 I told John this story\u2014wondering if he remembered it as I did\u2014and he even remembered the\u00a0<em>poem<\/em>, which began, Fortunate Alphonse, the shy homosexual &#8230; He told me, with a sigh, Yes, I took longer then.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/interviews\/2163\/donald-hall-the-art-of-poetry-no-43-donald-hall\" target=\"_blank\">Donald Hall, The Art of Poetry No. 43, issue no. 120 (Fall 1991)<\/a><\/p>\n<p>In the middle fifties, the painters, without any question, became very decisive for me personally. And not only for me. I was thinking about this when I saw John Ashbery the other day. At one point Ashbery gave his own sense of the New York School. He said, \u201cWell, first of all, the one thing that we were all in agreement with was that there should be no program, and that the poem, as we imagined it, should be the possibility of everything we have as experience. There should be no limit of a programmatic order.\u201d And then he went on to qualify why painters were interesting to them. Simply that the articulation\u2014the range of possibility\u2014in painting was more viable to their sense of things. And I thought, \u201cThat\u2019s literally what I would say.\u201d \u00a0&#8230; John was obviously coming to it by way of the French surrealists, where he found, not only playfulness, but a very active admission of the world as it\u2019s felt and confronted. It came from other places, too. I was finding it in jazz, for example.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/interviews\/4241\/robert-creeley-the-art-of-poetry-no-10-robert-creeley\" target=\"_blank\">Robert Creeley, The Art of Poetry No. 10, issue no. 44 (Fall 1968)<\/a><\/p>\n<p>If you want a poem to say what it means, right away, clearly\u2014and of course the poet who writes that kind of poem is usually talking about his or her own experiences\u2014well, what happens when you read that kind of poem is that it puts you back in the world that you know. The poem makes that world seem a little more comfortable, because here is somebody else who has had an\u00a0experience like yours. But you see, these little anecdotes that we read in these poems and that we like to believe are true, are in fact fictions. They represent a reduction of the real world. There\u2019s so much in our experience that we take for granted\u2014we don\u2019t need to read poems that help us to take those things even\u00a0<em>more<\/em>\u00a0for granted. People like John Ashbery or Stevens do just the opposite\u2014they try to explode those reductions. There\u2019s a desire in Ashbery, for example, to create perfect non sequiturs, to continually take us off guard. He creates a world that is fractured. It doesn\u2019t imitate reality. But, looking at it from another point of view, you\u00a0<em>could<\/em>\u00a0say that it\u2019s simply a world that is as fractured and as unpredictable as the world in which we move every day. So there\u2019s an element of delight in these people who rearrange reality. We usually hang on to the predictability of our experiences to such an extent &#8230; and there\u2019s nowhere else where one can escape that as thoroughly as one can in certain poets\u2019 work. When I read poetry, I want to feel myself suddenly larger &#8230; in touch with\u2014or at least close to\u2014what I deem magical, astonishing. I want to experience a kind of wonderment. And when you report back to your own daily world after experiencing the strangeness of a world sort of recombined and reordered in the depths of a poet\u2019s soul, the world looks fresher somehow. Your daily world has been taken out of context. It has the voice of the poet written all over it, for one thing, but it also seems suddenly more alive\u2014not as routinely there.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/interviews\/1070\/mark-strand-the-art-of-poetry-no-77-mark-strand\" target=\"_blank\">Mark Strand, The Art of Poetry No. 77, issue no. 148 (Fall 1998)<\/a><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>John Ashbery was a prolific contributor to The Paris Review. Over the years we published forty of his poems, plus two long prose pieces, a series of collages, and an Art of Poetry interview.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[419],"tags":[4478,699,15348,9205,7434,2043,3768,8072,5234,4277,4992,2253,10182,4275],"class_list":["post-115093","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-arts-culture","tag-alexander-pope","tag-allen-ginsberg","tag-amy-clampitt","tag-art-of-poetry","tag-donald-hall","tag-edmund-white","tag-harold-bloom","tag-helen-vendler","tag-john-ashbery","tag-jorie-graham","tag-mark-strand","tag-philip-larkin","tag-robert-creeley","tag-seamus-heaney"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO Premium plugin v25.4 (Yoast SEO v25.4) - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>The Ashbery Files<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Many Writers at Work interviewees found it impossible to discuss their work without mentioning John Ashbery.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2017\/09\/06\/the-ashbery-files\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"The Ashbery Files by Lorin Stein\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"September 6, 2017 \u2013 John Ashbery was a prolific contributor to The Paris Review. Over the years we published forty of his poems, plus two long prose pieces, a series of collages, and an Art of Poetry interview.\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2017\/09\/06\/the-ashbery-files\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"The Paris Review\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:publisher\" content=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/parisreview\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2017-09-06T20:52:47+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2017-09-08T14:52:06+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/09\/ashbery-hero_1.jpg\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"1092\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"630\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/jpeg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Lorin Stein\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:creator\" content=\"@parisreview\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:site\" content=\"@parisreview\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Lorin Stein\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"6 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"Article\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2017\/09\/06\/the-ashbery-files\/#article\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2017\/09\/06\/the-ashbery-files\/\"},\"author\":{\"name\":\"Lorin Stein\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/#\/schema\/person\/ccd66e9829fecb87371ce574d778e34b\"},\"headline\":\"The Ashbery Files\",\"datePublished\":\"2017-09-06T20:52:47+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2017-09-08T14:52:06+00:00\",\"mainEntityOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2017\/09\/06\/the-ashbery-files\/\"},\"wordCount\":1162,\"publisher\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/#organization\"},\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2017\/09\/06\/the-ashbery-files\/#primaryimage\"},\"thumbnailUrl\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/09\/ashbery-hero_1.jpg\",\"keywords\":[\"Alexander Pope\",\"Allen Ginsberg\",\"Amy Clampitt\",\"Art of Poetry\",\"Donald Hall\",\"Edmund White\",\"Harold Bloom\",\"Helen Vendler\",\"John Ashbery\",\"Jorie Graham\",\"Mark Strand\",\"Philip Larkin\",\"Robert Creeley\",\"Seamus Heaney\"],\"articleSection\":[\"Arts &amp; Culture\"],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2017\/09\/06\/the-ashbery-files\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2017\/09\/06\/the-ashbery-files\/\",\"name\":\"The Ashbery Files\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/#website\"},\"primaryImageOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2017\/09\/06\/the-ashbery-files\/#primaryimage\"},\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2017\/09\/06\/the-ashbery-files\/#primaryimage\"},\"thumbnailUrl\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/09\/ashbery-hero_1.jpg\",\"datePublished\":\"2017-09-06T20:52:47+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2017-09-08T14:52:06+00:00\",\"description\":\"Many Writers at Work interviewees found it impossible to discuss their work without mentioning John Ashbery.\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2017\/09\/06\/the-ashbery-files\/#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2017\/09\/06\/the-ashbery-files\/\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2017\/09\/06\/the-ashbery-files\/#primaryimage\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/09\/ashbery-hero_1.jpg\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/09\/ashbery-hero_1.jpg\"},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2017\/09\/06\/the-ashbery-files\/#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"The Ashbery Files\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/\",\"name\":\"The Paris Review\",\"description\":\"The best prose, interviews, poetry, and art. 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