{"id":113321,"date":"2017-08-01T12:22:59","date_gmt":"2017-08-01T16:22:59","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/?p=113321"},"modified":"2017-08-05T14:26:25","modified_gmt":"2017-08-05T18:26:25","slug":"an-interview-with-billy-bragg","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2017\/08\/01\/an-interview-with-billy-bragg\/","title":{"rendered":"Skiffle Craze: An Interview with Billy Bragg"},"content":{"rendered":"
\"\"<\/a>

Billy Bragg.<\/p><\/div>\n

 <\/p>\n

Billy Bragg\u2019s new book,\u00a0<\/em>Roots, Radicals and Rockers, is a history of skiffle\u2014an art form that was looked down upon when Bragg himself began to play music, in the 1970s. But as Bragg explained a few days ago, in\u00a0a fascinating talk at the Library of Congress<\/a>, skiffle was England\u2019s first\u00a0teenage subculture\u2014a working-class, DIY youth cult that set the stage not only for the British Invasion but for punk. It\u2019s ironic, if not especially odd, that Bragg, a member of the first generation of British rockers who owed little or nothing to the skiffle craze, should end up writing about its influence.<\/em><\/p>\n

\u201cAs pop became profound in the 60s, artists who had learned their chops playing skiffle tended to leave it out of their biographies,\u201d Bragg writes in the book\u2019s introduction. \u201cIf you wanted to be taken seriously, better to claim you were initially inspired by Chuck Berry and Buddy Holly rather than Chas McDevitt and Nancy Whiskey. Thus skiffle became a bit of an embarrassment for Britain\u2019s sixties rock royalty, like an awkward photo from a school yearbook, a reminder of shabby realities of postwar, pre-rock Britain. Even when credit was given, skiffle often found itself edited out in the search for a snappier sound bite. Take George Harrison\u2019s famous quote about how his band was influenced by the blues: \u2018No Lead Belly, no Beatles.\u2019 What Harrison actually said was: \u2018If there were no Lead Belly there would have been no Lonnie Donegan; no Lonnie Donegan, no Beatles. Therefore, no Lead Belly, no Beatles.\u2019 \u201d<\/em><\/p>\n

Among musicians who grew up with the music, Van Morrison has been one of the very few to give it its due.\u00a0<\/em><\/p>\n

I watched Bragg\u2019s talk the other night, then hopped over to Bragg\u2019s website and saw that he was playing in New York City\u00a0on Tuesday. Naturally, the show was sold out. But just before sound check, I walked over to Bragg\u2019s hotel for a pot of tea (Earl Grey for me, mint for the author) and a chat about the book. This was a treat: I\u2019ve been listening to Bragg\u2019s music since I was a teenager, and spent much of the money I had then seeing him live. (I\u2019m not the only one.\u00a0<\/em>The Paris Review\u2019s\u00a0editor, Lorin Stein, saw Bragg play the\u00a09:30\u00a0Club, in Washington, D.C., on the\u00a0Back to Basics\u00a0tour. It was Lorin\u2019s first rock show.)\u00a0<\/em><\/p>\n

Bragg touched on a few of the stories he\u2019d told at the Library of Congress. (The remarkable story of Ken Colyer, an English trumpeter who joined the Merchant Marine just to make it to New Orleans, only to find himself sailing around the Cape of Good Hope, on his way to Australia, was new to me.) But the conversation itself weaved in and out, going\u2014as the best conversations tend to go\u2014in any number of other directions.\u00a0<\/em><\/p>\n

BRAGG<\/p>\n

Skiffle songs are railroad songs, from \u201cRock Island Line\u201d on down. While researching the book, I kept thinking, why are there so many American railroad songs? In my culture, we don\u2019t have many. The only one I remember from school is \u201cCasey Jones,\u201d which is American. Last year, Joe Henry and I got on a train in Los Angeles, rode to Chicago, via San Antonio. When the train stopped, we recorded railroad songs on the platform, in the waiting room, wherever we could find a good acoustic space. Joe and I have been touring this record for eighteen months, playing acoustic guitars, singing these railroad songs. But on a night like last night, where I\u2019m solo and all I\u2019ve got is an electric guitar and my own repertoire, instead of having a defined set where I know what I\u2019m going to play and what the bullet points are\u2014I was all over the place. I played for two and a quarter hours, maybe two and a half hours. Loads more stuff than I thought I was going to play. I\u2019m not sure if I was indulging the audience or they were indulging me.<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/p>\n

A friend who saw you last night said it was beautiful.<\/p>\n

BRAGG<\/p>\n

I had a great time. There was a storm and the power went out. I told jokes for five or six minutes. A run of duck jokes. I told a lot<\/em> of jokes about ducks. I don\u2019t know where they came from, but they filled the gap till the power came back. It was one of those gigs that people remember, but not for the right reasons.<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/p>\n

Let\u2019s talk about Skiffle.<\/p>\n

\n
\n
\n

BRAGG<\/p>\n

Most books that refer to skiffle tend to be biographies of sixties rock stars. They might have a couple of pages where they explain what skiffle is in layman\u2019s terms, but they treat Lonnie Donegan\u2019s 1956 hit \u201cRock Island Line\u201d as a singularity. What I\u2019m trying to do is put this period into its proper context by looking at things that came together to bring the guitar to the fore in British music. That\u2019s what this is about. The transformation of British pop music from a jazz-influenced confection for adults into a guitar-led music for teens. That\u2019s the significance of it, because the guitar wasn\u2019t a big instrument in British music. It was an outsider\u2019s instrument.<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/p>\n

In your talk the other day, you mentioned cheap guitars from Czechoslovakia.<\/p>\n

BRAGG<\/p>\n

When skiffle happened, you could get archtop guitars from Europe. They were pretty basic. Some people tried to make their own. Weirdly, those same archtop guitars were in junk shops again at the beginning of punk,\u00a0twenty years later<\/span><\/span>. I saw a lot of them. In fact, I got a 1930s archtop, for fifteen or sixteen quid. I\u2019ve still got it knocking around. It\u2019s a bit buzzy, but it works as a guitar, if you\u2019re learning.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/p>\n

In the 1970s, when you came up, skiffle was seen as schmaltzy.<\/p>\n

BRAGG<\/p>\n

Because so many of the people who participated in skiffle were very young, it was dismissed as juvenilia by the time I came along. Van Morrison\u2019s twelve when he first hears Donegan. His life is transformed. George Harrison\u2019s thirteen, Paul McCartney is fourteen, when they see Donegan play in Liverpool in \u201956. Jimmy Page is fourteen when he\u2019s filmed playing guitar on TV on the BBC,<\/a> singing \u201cMama Don\u2019t Allow No Skiffle Playing Round Here.\u201d But by the sixties, pop is turning into rock and becoming more serious, and as a result, many of those guys would rather cite Elvis Presley, Chuck Berry, or Buddy Holly, as the person who inspired them to pick up a guitar. The truth is much more basic than that, because British teenagers could imagine themselves doing what Donegan was doing. None of those guys could be<\/em> Elvis Presley. I quote Van Morrison in the book, saying so. They just couldn\u2019t. But you could<\/em> be Lonnie Donegan, and everybody needs that moment when you look at someone doing something and think, I could do that. I had that moment with the Clash in 1977, at the Rainbow in London. They were doing all the things I liked that the Rolling Stones and the Faces did. But they were my age.<\/p>\n

Conversely, I would occasionally have conversations with people like John Peel that\u00a0led me to realize that skiffle had a huge effect on these people\u2014Morrison, McCartney. Perhaps bigger than the effect punk had on me. The significant thing about the skiffle generation is that they\u2019re our first teenagers. Our first generation to define themselves through their own culture. Previously, there were adults and there were children. Adults listened to crooners, children listened to novelty records, there was no intermediate space until Bill Haley and Lonnie Donegan came along in \u201955. And that\u2019s just a year after food rationing ends in the UK. I think it\u2019s significant that this happens when the skiffle kids are twelve, thirteen, fourteen years old. John Lennon is fourteen when rationing ends. He\u2019s had his entire childhood without being able to go into a sweet shop to buy whatever he wants. There\u2019s that pent-up desire to escape having to wear hand-me-downs\u2014because clothing was rationed as well\u2014to get away from the rubble of the war, to make the future happen. And for that generation, the guitar was a symbol of the future arriving. The members of that generation were trying to escape their drab world, their past, by taking up the guitar and playing American roots music\u2014which is paradoxically the opposite of what folk fans were doing in the U.S. In the U.S., they were trying to hark back. Groups like the New Lost City Ramblers were looking to reconnect with the past. The British kids were trying to escape the past as quickly as they could and the guitar offered them the best means to do that.<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/p>\n

Skiffle seems much less political than the American folk revival.<\/p>\n

<\/a>

Courtesy Faber & Faber.<\/p><\/div>\n

BRAGG<\/p>\n

The closest equivalent to Pete Seeger that we have in the UK is Ewan MacColl. He\u2019s already making what we would call \u201cagit-prop,\u201d writing plays, and writing songs for the plays. Alan Lomax is also in London, involved in recording roots music. He\u2019s trying to escape the Red Scare in the U.S. And the two of them team up together and realize that skiffle offers them the opportunity to put forward, in Lomax\u2019s case, African American culture, which he\u2019s always been a champion of, and in MacColl\u2019s case, working-class culture, which he\u2019s been a champion of. They get together and form a band called the Ramblers, which also includes Peggy Seeger and Shirley Collins, who become two big figures on the folk scene. They are trying to do something like the Weavers did in the U.S. Other bands in the UK had also tried to use the Weavers as a reference point, but they hadn\u2019t succeeded. People like John Hasted and Karl Dallas, who were playing folk music like the Weavers, had been getting absolutely no traction. Suddenly, skiffle opens the door for those guys, although they\u2019re much older. It\u2019s similar to punk in the way that someone like Ian Dury, who\u2019s the same age as Paul McCartney, was able to get noticed during the late seventies. Punk rock suddenly opened the door, and made what he was doing viable. Elvis Costello\u2019s another one. He had been on the pub rock circuit for three or four years, getting nowhere. Punk rock opened a lot of doors. And skiffle opened a lot of doors, too. Although political music in the strict sense didn\u2019t happen, there were strong connections between the skifflers and the political movements of the day\u2014the first of which would be the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament. That begins in 1958, in protest at the British government developing a hydrogen bomb. They\u2019re building one at a place called Aldermaston, which is about forty\u00a0miles west of London. In Easter of 1958, the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament organized the first mass march to Aldermaston from London, over the course of the long holiday weekend. Skifflers are there in Trafalgar Square at the beginning. They\u2019re on the road as well, performing at night in the church halls where the people sleep. They\u2019re going ahead to welcome people in to the next town. There\u2019s a radical angle to that. And a number of the skiffle performers in bands like the City Ramblers had been a part of the Young Communist League. They\u2019d been to World Youth Festivals that the Communist Party organized in Eastern Europe, so there\u2019s that radical thread as well. And in \u201958 also, there were race riots in West London. That\u2019s where Oswald Mosley, the Blackshirt leader from the 1930s, was trying to regroup his fascists. He\u2019s going to stand for Parliament in Notting Hill\u2014and that area was not like it is now. At the time, it\u2019s a big slum. Landlords are throwing out white residents, dividing the big houses into small flats, putting in West Indian immigrants and exploiting them. This boils over. There\u2019s a lot of violence in the streets. And the skifflers and the trad jazz people get together to form an initiative called the Stars Committee for Interracial Friendship. They organize gigs to raise money to print leaflets, which they distribute in white areas, calling for racial harmony. They organize a black-and-white club in Notting Hill, which also includes Claudia Jones. Born in the Caribbean, she\u2019s been a member of the American Communist Party, been exiled from America, she can\u2019t go back to the West Indies, and so the British take her in. She\u2019s involved in this Stars Committee for Interracial Friendship, but much more significantly than that, in the wake of the race riots, she goes on to found the Notting Hill Carnival, which was the premier focus of Afro-Caribbean culture in the UK, and still is. The skifflers played an important role in that. There was an open letter to the Melody Maker<\/em>. The musicians were the only group to really stand up and say, This is wrong. The Church of England didn\u2019t really say anything, officially. The government was quiet about it. Individuals spoke out, of course. But the skiffle campaign was quite significant as a precursor for Rock Against Racism.<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/p>\n

Ken Colyer. No one knows his story, but it\u2019s amazing.<\/p>\n

BRAGG<\/p>\n

Ken Colyer would be such a good subject for a biopic. Colyer is the music lover in all of us. His determination to find real New Orleans jazz against all the odds\u2014all<\/em> the odds. It makes him a key figure in the development of British rock \u2019n\u2019 roll. Nobody gives him that credit. He\u2019s one of the great unsung heroes.<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/p>\n

How hard would it have been for someone like him\u2014someone without money\u2014to get from England to New Orleans?<\/p>\n

BRAGG<\/p>\n

Oh, almost impossible. There were restrictions on how much money you could take out of the country as a tourist. It was really low, like ten pounds per person. Most working-class people had only ever gone as far as France. Then you\u2019ve got to find a way to get into America. You\u2019ve got to get across the Atlantic. That\u2019s why his letters from New Orleans were so popular, when they were printed in the English press. Nobody could imagine themselves getting there. Think of the determination of that man\u2014he took three trips in the Merchant Marine that went nowhere near America until he was able to secure a job on a ship that went to the Gulf of Mexico. One man, out on his own, no iPhone, no money, just his wits, his love of music, and his trumpet. His determination to play that music and bring it back to the UK\u2014like a jazz Moses\u2014made a whole lot of difference. And, of course, he\u2019s the guy who came up with the break-down sessions that evolved into skiffle. He and his brother, Bill and Ken. They laid for the foundation stone for the whole thing.<\/p>\n

<\/a>

Courtesy Faber & Faber.<\/p><\/div>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/p>\n

The stock rock-n-roll narratives set up an opposition between trad jazz and blues and rhythm and blues bands. But it\u2019s much more complicated than that, partly because of skiffle …<\/p>\n

BRAGG<\/p>\n

Firstly, skiffle is complicated. Secondly, there\u2019s Chris Barber, who brings Muddy Waters over, brings African American electric blues to the country, lets people experience that music firsthand. But by the time British rock goes electric, in the early sixties, the trad jazz clubs are established and won\u2019t have any electric music. That\u2019s where the problem starts. Places like the Marquee\u2014and the Cavern as well\u2014are trad jazz clubs. They\u2019re trying to hold the line against electric music. It\u2019s because they\u2019re purists. They\u2019re the same with modern jazz. They wouldn\u2019t have modern jazz. And for my generation, trad was Mom and Dad\u2019s music. It\u2019s funny for me because I shared that disdain, and to write that book I had to find a way in. Ultimately, it was realizing that what Ken Colyer did, by going back to basics with trad jazz, was the same as what the Ramones and Dr. Feelgood did years later.<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/p>\n

Did this reinforce, or make you change your thinking about, cycles of musical development?<\/p>\n

BRAGG<\/p>\n

In my country, skiffle marks the beginning of music as the vanguard culture for youth. In some ways, that has come to an end now. Music has lost that role. There are other ways now\u2014if you are angry, or if you want to identify yourself as being in favor of something\u2014you don\u2019t have to buy an album, dress like your hero, be a mod or a Ted or a rocker or punk. Now you can do that with your social-media profile. People out there are still making music with an edge. They\u2019re still using music as the main way of communicating. But they\u2019re marginalized people, like Leadbelly was. In my country, it\u2019s grime artists\u2014black urban youth\u2014who are making a music that mixes hip-hop and Jamaican dancehall. Significantly, they were the only people to come out in favor of Jeremy Corbyn during the election. There are one or two exceptions\u2014people like myself, the usual suspects, you know\u2014who do that anyway.<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/p>\n

Like the Sleaford Mods.<\/p>\n

BRAGG<\/p>\n

The Sleaford Mods are a bit sort of \u201cFuck you,\u201d you know? Also, no disrespect to them, but they\u2019re twentieth-century people. They\u2019re in their forties. I like them. I just wish they were twenty. Whereas the grime people are<\/em> twenty. They\u2019re not making it political like I do, and the Sleafords do, because they remember it\u2019s supposed to be like that from the twentieth century. They\u2019re doing it because it\u2019s the only way they\u2019ve got to have their voice heard, and get on your timeline and my timeline. There\u2019s no other medium they can get into. No one\u2019s asking them to write an article for the Spectator<\/em>. Where is political music? The trouble is, people who ask that question are looking for white boys with guitars. Well Ed Sheeran\u2019s over there. Help yourself, much as you like. There\u2019s interesting music, but you\u2019ve got to step outside of what we did in the twentieth century to find it and think about it.<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/p>\n

Dr. Feelgood is a band no one here seems to care about, much as you try to convince people that it\u2019s where the Gang of Four comes from.<\/p>\n

BRAGG<\/p>\n

Dr. Feedgood is where punk comes from. It is. The first time I saw Wilko Johnson, the band was\u00a0playing live in the studio for a kind of kids pop program. Here\u2019s this band at a time when the image of a pop star is Peter Frampton\u2014curly hair, \u201cI want you to show me the way,\u201d all friendly, all cuddly, shampooed\u2014and there\u2019s Lee Brilleaux looking at you like he\u2019d fucking kill you if you looked at him. Like he\u2019d start a fight in a nunnery. Wilko, even worse, looks like the kind of person who, at my school, would\u2019ve got the shit beat out of him every day. He\u2019s got a fucking pudding-bowl haircut and\u2014what my mom would say is, he\u2019s looking like he\u2019s funny, right? And yet, he\u2019s the coolest guitar player you have ever seen. What happens is, once the Feelgoods make it cool to be like that, a series of unprepossessing blokes\u2014Costello, Strummer, Rotten, Weller, Dury\u2014suddenly have a kudos that they never had before. And that curly haired, long-haired, Fleetwood Mac shit can fuck right off. Wilko\u2019s staccato guitar playing, it\u2019s a classic back-to-basics. The Ramones and the Feelgoods, like Elvis and Donegan, had the same impulse at the same time in different places.<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/p>\n

It makes sense that Donegan wouldn\u2019t cross over to America. Why didn\u2019t the Feelgoods?<\/p>\n

BRAGG<\/p>\n

I don\u2019t think punk ever really crossed over into America. The more rock-y end of it\u2014\u201cRock the Casbah\u201d\u2014crossed over. But I don\u2019t think Americans really ever got punk in the way that we did. Punk in America goes sideways into Blondie, Talking Heads, Television. Nothing wrong with those bands, I\u2019m a fan. But that\u2019s not punk rock. Punk rock is something else. And it never takes hold, like a national craze, the way it did in the UK. It\u2019s strong on the coasts, but elsewhere, people are wearing flares into the 1980s. In my country, flares are gone by \u201979.<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/p>\n

If music\u2019s lost its privileged place, in youth culture, has youth culture itself lost its privileged place as an agent for change?<\/p>\n

BRAGG<\/p>\n

I don\u2019t think so. When I go on stage in Glastonbury, the young people I see who have something to say\u2014who are using music to define themselves against the rest of us\u2014are playing with gender. I wouldn\u2019t say it to them, because they\u2019d laugh at me, but what I see in their deliberate blurring of the gender line is a refusal to accept an imposed, fixed position. A way of saying, We\u2019re not like you, we\u2019re a completely new thing. Now, I wouldn\u2019t want to put that weight on them\u2014that\u2019s their deal, and I respect it. But they look to me, they sound to me, and they act to me like a youth cult defining itself on its own terms. That\u2019s what punk was, that\u2019s what skiffle was, too.<\/p>\n

<\/a><\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/p>\n

And it can change the world?<\/p>\n

BRAGG<\/p>\n

It can change their<\/em> world, and their perspective on the world. The way they look at gender as a spectrum, rather than a fixed position. The best thing about it is that it really pisses off grown-ups. That seems to be where that spirit is now. It may not lead to great guitar music, but who cares. It\u2019s not our culture anymore, it\u2019s their culture. I\u2019m gonna be sixty this year. You think I\u2019m going to stand there and tell some twenty-year-old how they have to make music? How they have to do politics? Fuck off, old man! I don\u2019t want to be that bloke, some old fart sitting around saying how great the Clash were. He might have that conversation with you if you\u2019re interested. Talk about why and how he was moved by the Clash. But I recognize your inalienable right to fuck me off. And good luck to you!<\/p>\n

INTERVIEWER<\/p>\n

What\u2019s the best duck joke you told last night?<\/p>\n

BRAGG<\/p>\n

A duck is just about to cross the road when a chicken runs up and grabs him and says, Don\u2019t do that, you\u2019ll never hear the last of it. That\u2019s it, I\u2019m afraid. It\u2019s a bit existential, but there you go. That\u2019s my favorite one, I don\u2019t know if it\u2019s the best one, but it\u2019s certainly my favorite.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Alex Abramovich<\/a>\u00a0is the author of\u00a0<\/em>Bullies: A Friendship<\/a>.\u00a0<\/i><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

By the time British rock goes electric, in the early sixties, the trad jazz clubs are established and won\u2019t have any electric music. That\u2019s where the problem starts.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":920,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[1187],"tags":[3514,29834,29836,29828,29841,29837,29846,29833,29838,29831,29844,29839,46,14603,29832,12744,29843,28788,6412,8139,29830,29845,29847,29829,29835,29840,15163,29842],"class_list":["post-113321","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-on-music","tag-alan-lomax","tag-alan-lomax-and-the-ramblers","tag-american-folk-revival","tag-billy-bragg","tag-ed-sheeran","tag-ewan-maccoll","tag-glastonbury","tag-history-of-rock","tag-ken-koyler","tag-leadbelly","tag-lee-brilleaux","tag-melody-maker","tag-music","tag-music-history","tag-new-lost-city-ramblers","tag-pete-seeger","tag-peter-frampton","tag-pop","tag-punk","tag-rock","tag-rock-roll","tag-rock-the-casbah","tag-roots-radicals-and-rockers","tag-skiffle","tag-the-skiffle-album","tag-the-sleaford-mods","tag-united-kingdom","tag-wilko-johnson"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"\nSkiffle Craze: An Interview with Billy Bragg<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Billy Bragg talks with Alex Abramovich about his new book, \u2018Roots, Radicals and Rockers\u2019\u2014a history of how skiffle changed the world.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2017\/08\/01\/an-interview-with-billy-bragg\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Skiffle Craze: An Interview with Billy Bragg by Alex Abramovich\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"August 1, 2017 \u2013 By the time British rock goes electric, in the early sixties, the trad jazz clubs are established and won\u2019t have any electric music. That\u2019s where the problem starts.\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2017\/08\/01\/an-interview-with-billy-bragg\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"The Paris Review\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:publisher\" content=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/parisreview\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2017-08-01T16:22:59+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2017-08-05T18:26:25+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/08\/bb_promo.lowreskirkus.jpg\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"2207\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"1655\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/jpeg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Alex Abramovich\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:creator\" content=\"@parisreview\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:site\" content=\"@parisreview\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Alex Abramovich\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"20 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"Article\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2017\/08\/01\/an-interview-with-billy-bragg\/#article\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2017\/08\/01\/an-interview-with-billy-bragg\/\"},\"author\":{\"name\":\"Alex Abramovich\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/#\/schema\/person\/ba8fe17314185149110bce47d6b96e85\"},\"headline\":\"Skiffle Craze: An Interview with Billy Bragg\",\"datePublished\":\"2017-08-01T16:22:59+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2017-08-05T18:26:25+00:00\",\"mainEntityOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2017\/08\/01\/an-interview-with-billy-bragg\/\"},\"wordCount\":3961,\"publisher\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/#organization\"},\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2017\/08\/01\/an-interview-with-billy-bragg\/#primaryimage\"},\"thumbnailUrl\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/08\/bb_promo.lowreskirkus-1024x768.jpg\",\"keywords\":[\"Alan Lomax\",\"Alan Lomax and the Ramblers\",\"American folk revival\",\"Billy Bragg\",\"Ed Sheeran\",\"Ewan MacColl\",\"Glastonbury\",\"history of rock\",\"Ken Koyler\",\"Leadbelly\",\"Lee Brilleaux\",\"Melody Maker\",\"music\",\"music history\",\"New Lost City Ramblers\",\"Pete Seeger\",\"Peter Frampton\",\"pop\",\"punk\",\"rock\",\"rock & roll\",\"Rock the Casbah\",\"Roots Radicals and Rockers\",\"Skiffle\",\"The Skiffle Album\",\"The Sleaford Mods\",\"United Kingdom\",\"Wilko Johnson\"],\"articleSection\":[\"On Music\"],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2017\/08\/01\/an-interview-with-billy-bragg\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2017\/08\/01\/an-interview-with-billy-bragg\/\",\"name\":\"Skiffle Craze: An Interview with Billy Bragg\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/#website\"},\"primaryImageOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2017\/08\/01\/an-interview-with-billy-bragg\/#primaryimage\"},\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2017\/08\/01\/an-interview-with-billy-bragg\/#primaryimage\"},\"thumbnailUrl\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/08\/bb_promo.lowreskirkus-1024x768.jpg\",\"datePublished\":\"2017-08-01T16:22:59+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2017-08-05T18:26:25+00:00\",\"description\":\"Billy Bragg talks with Alex Abramovich about his new book, \u2018Roots, Radicals and Rockers\u2019\u2014a history of how skiffle changed the world.\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2017\/08\/01\/an-interview-with-billy-bragg\/#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2017\/08\/01\/an-interview-with-billy-bragg\/\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2017\/08\/01\/an-interview-with-billy-bragg\/#primaryimage\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/08\/bb_promo.lowreskirkus.jpg\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/08\/bb_promo.lowreskirkus.jpg\",\"width\":2207,\"height\":1655,\"caption\":\"Billy Bragg.\"},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2017\/08\/01\/an-interview-with-billy-bragg\/#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Skiffle Craze: An Interview with Billy Bragg\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/\",\"name\":\"The Paris Review\",\"description\":\"The best prose, interviews, poetry, and art. Since 1953.\",\"publisher\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/#organization\"},\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":{\"@type\":\"PropertyValueSpecification\",\"valueRequired\":true,\"valueName\":\"search_term_string\"}}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Organization\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/#organization\",\"name\":\"The Paris Review\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/\",\"logo\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/#\/schema\/logo\/image\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/04\/tpr-hadada-roundell-logo-square.png\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/04\/tpr-hadada-roundell-logo-square.png\",\"width\":696,\"height\":696,\"caption\":\"The Paris Review\"},\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/#\/schema\/logo\/image\/\"},\"sameAs\":[\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/parisreview\/\",\"https:\/\/x.com\/parisreview\",\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/parisreview\"]},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/#\/schema\/person\/ba8fe17314185149110bce47d6b96e85\",\"name\":\"Alex Abramovich\",\"image\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/c184ebdb103bd631ae96b992f07e0fc661eb7cbb552caf8d7b4dcf1c69c381a8?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/c184ebdb103bd631ae96b992f07e0fc661eb7cbb552caf8d7b4dcf1c69c381a8?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"caption\":\"Alex Abramovich\"},\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/author\/aabramovich\/\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO Premium plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Skiffle Craze: An Interview with Billy Bragg","description":"Billy Bragg talks with Alex Abramovich about his new book, \u2018Roots, Radicals and Rockers\u2019\u2014a history of how skiffle changed the world.","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2017\/08\/01\/an-interview-with-billy-bragg\/","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Skiffle Craze: An Interview with Billy Bragg by Alex Abramovich","og_description":"August 1, 2017 \u2013 By the time British rock goes electric, in the early sixties, the trad jazz clubs are established and won\u2019t have any electric music. That\u2019s where the problem starts.","og_url":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2017\/08\/01\/an-interview-with-billy-bragg\/","og_site_name":"The Paris Review","article_publisher":"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/parisreview\/","article_published_time":"2017-08-01T16:22:59+00:00","article_modified_time":"2017-08-05T18:26:25+00:00","og_image":[{"width":2207,"height":1655,"url":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/08\/bb_promo.lowreskirkus.jpg","type":"image\/jpeg"}],"author":"Alex Abramovich","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_creator":"@parisreview","twitter_site":"@parisreview","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"Alex Abramovich","Est. reading time":"20 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"Article","@id":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2017\/08\/01\/an-interview-with-billy-bragg\/#article","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2017\/08\/01\/an-interview-with-billy-bragg\/"},"author":{"name":"Alex Abramovich","@id":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/#\/schema\/person\/ba8fe17314185149110bce47d6b96e85"},"headline":"Skiffle Craze: An Interview with Billy Bragg","datePublished":"2017-08-01T16:22:59+00:00","dateModified":"2017-08-05T18:26:25+00:00","mainEntityOfPage":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2017\/08\/01\/an-interview-with-billy-bragg\/"},"wordCount":3961,"publisher":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/#organization"},"image":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2017\/08\/01\/an-interview-with-billy-bragg\/#primaryimage"},"thumbnailUrl":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/08\/bb_promo.lowreskirkus-1024x768.jpg","keywords":["Alan Lomax","Alan Lomax and the Ramblers","American folk revival","Billy Bragg","Ed Sheeran","Ewan MacColl","Glastonbury","history of rock","Ken Koyler","Leadbelly","Lee Brilleaux","Melody Maker","music","music history","New Lost City Ramblers","Pete Seeger","Peter Frampton","pop","punk","rock","rock & roll","Rock the Casbah","Roots Radicals and Rockers","Skiffle","The Skiffle Album","The Sleaford Mods","United Kingdom","Wilko Johnson"],"articleSection":["On Music"],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2017\/08\/01\/an-interview-with-billy-bragg\/","url":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2017\/08\/01\/an-interview-with-billy-bragg\/","name":"Skiffle Craze: An Interview with Billy Bragg","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/#website"},"primaryImageOfPage":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2017\/08\/01\/an-interview-with-billy-bragg\/#primaryimage"},"image":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2017\/08\/01\/an-interview-with-billy-bragg\/#primaryimage"},"thumbnailUrl":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/08\/bb_promo.lowreskirkus-1024x768.jpg","datePublished":"2017-08-01T16:22:59+00:00","dateModified":"2017-08-05T18:26:25+00:00","description":"Billy Bragg talks with Alex Abramovich about his new book, \u2018Roots, Radicals and Rockers\u2019\u2014a history of how skiffle changed the world.","breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2017\/08\/01\/an-interview-with-billy-bragg\/#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2017\/08\/01\/an-interview-with-billy-bragg\/"]}]},{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2017\/08\/01\/an-interview-with-billy-bragg\/#primaryimage","url":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/08\/bb_promo.lowreskirkus.jpg","contentUrl":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/08\/bb_promo.lowreskirkus.jpg","width":2207,"height":1655,"caption":"Billy Bragg."},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/2017\/08\/01\/an-interview-with-billy-bragg\/#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Skiffle Craze: An Interview with Billy Bragg"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/#website","url":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/","name":"The Paris Review","description":"The best prose, interviews, poetry, and art. Since 1953.","publisher":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/#organization"},"potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":{"@type":"PropertyValueSpecification","valueRequired":true,"valueName":"search_term_string"}}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Organization","@id":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/#organization","name":"The Paris Review","url":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/","logo":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/#\/schema\/logo\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/04\/tpr-hadada-roundell-logo-square.png","contentUrl":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/04\/tpr-hadada-roundell-logo-square.png","width":696,"height":696,"caption":"The Paris Review"},"image":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/#\/schema\/logo\/image\/"},"sameAs":["https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/parisreview\/","https:\/\/x.com\/parisreview","https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/parisreview"]},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/#\/schema\/person\/ba8fe17314185149110bce47d6b96e85","name":"Alex Abramovich","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/c184ebdb103bd631ae96b992f07e0fc661eb7cbb552caf8d7b4dcf1c69c381a8?s=96&d=mm&r=g","contentUrl":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/c184ebdb103bd631ae96b992f07e0fc661eb7cbb552caf8d7b4dcf1c69c381a8?s=96&d=mm&r=g","caption":"Alex Abramovich"},"url":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/author\/aabramovich\/"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/113321","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/920"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=113321"}],"version-history":[{"count":25,"href":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/113321\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":113352,"href":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/113321\/revisions\/113352"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=113321"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=113321"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.theparisreview.org\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=113321"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}